Love your arranger keyboard...?

You've come to the right place! We are a honeywell of relevant information. Listen to the experts for tips and tricks. Read our blog posts to get ideas and inspiration. Expand your social network. Discover what is possible with your arranger keyboard. Visit the forum right now to get started.

×
Come join the forum

Register an account and participate in the forum is an active member of the user club

www.roland-arranger.com/index.php/compon...s/?view=registration

No line out

1 week 1 day ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #285
HI.

When I connect my roland bk3 to my mixer amp, it sounds pretty terrible. Is this because it has no line out sockets and have to use the headphone jack? It is not the amp as all other inputs sound fine. Is there anything I can use to convert the headphone signal to a line level signal?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 14 hours ago
Willem52
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 36
Karma: 2
More
No line out #286
I have no Roland BK-3, but if the sound is distorted,
please try to lower the headphone/output volume.

Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820 and EMU Xboard61.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 10 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #287
I have tried the master volume as low as possible(25%). I think I need some sort of signal attenuation between the keyboard and the amp. I have read that headphone out sockets deliver a signal with a lower resistance to a typical lineout signal. The keyboard sounds OK through its own speakers.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 9 hours ago
Willem52
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 36
Karma: 2
More
No line out #288
Just a quick guess:
How is the sound if you connect the BK-3 output directly to an amplifier?

You can try a resistor of 33 Ohm 1W parallel over the BK-3 output and in series
with the signal a higher resistance value (like 47K Ohm) to the mixer.
(and this for each channel (L+R)) and check if the result is better.
See example.

Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820 and EMU Xboard61.
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 8 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #289
The sound on not great when connected directly to an amplifier. I wouldn't be able to implement your idea as I am no good at electronics. I understand a little theory but that's it. Is there something I can buy which will do the same job?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 4 hours ago
Diki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 90
Karma: 2
More
No line out #290
What kind of mixer amp, what kind of speakers? What kind of cable are you using to go from headphone out to the mixer? Are you running stereo?

First things first. If your mixer has mic ins and line ins on the same channel, don't use the mic ins! Use the line ins (mic ins are generally XLR, line ins are usually 1/4" TS/TRS).

You might want to check into your mixer settings. Generally, when getting a hot input signal, turn down the FIRST pre-amp on the mixer (the channel gain) as low as possible, and run the channel fader at unity (0) and the main output at unity (depending on the power amps and speakers).

Generally, when running from headphone outputs, yes, 25-40% of full volume knob travel is considered best. Cheap keyboards don't generally use ultra-high quality headphone op-amps! I'd start with 30%.

Let us know a bit more about what you are using, we should be able to fix you up OK. I use the headphone outputs on my BK9 all the time to drive my stage monitoring (while the main outs got to the powered speakers or mixer) and have no issues.

BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

1 week 1 hour ago
Ronald#Roland
New Member
New Member
Posts: 3
More
No line out #291
the solution is a DI-box !!!

for example a Behringer di20 cost about 20$,

Dikki why don't you use a DI-box ? TIP

BK7m,StudiologicSl880,edirolPCR-800,.....E-MU0404-usb,FA-08

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

6 days 18 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #292
I am using a Behringer Europower PMP2000 powered mixer. I go into the line ins (1/4" jacks) and have the pad button active. I don't have a separate gain and fader control on this amp. Just one volume per channel and my master volume. I have tried all sorts of combinations but just can't get a clear sound from the bk3. I used a G800 for years with the same amp but it sounded fine.

Guess it's because the bk3 is a cheap keyboard or maybe another amp is in order. I don't know. Would a DI box help. I don't really understand what they do. I thought they were for guitars.

My speakers are wharfedale pro - 150w 8ohm and my behringer amp outputs 150w per side at 8ohm.

Thanks for your help.

Much appreciated.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

6 days 5 hours ago
Diki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 90
Karma: 2
More
No line out #293
OK... Yes, if you have a mixer that does not have separate gain controls to the channel fader, you may have problems.

Obviously, if you run power amp main outs as high as possible, you could run the input as low as possible, but if you have tried that with no success, we may need to look at other solutions.

Personally, I don’t use a DI box because I don’t need one, LOL My stage monitoring takes my headphone feed out into its RCA inns without any distortion. Plus, I consider a DI box not a great tip, because most of those are designed to take line level and convert it to microphone level. However several companies, including RadioShack, make what is known as attenuating cables. This is a type of cable that will pad the output down. This may work for you.

However I am concerned that you do not find any way to get a clean signal. I presume it sounds fine on headphones, so there is no distortion in the signal to start with? Admittedly, I use a BK9, which may have a better quality headphone amp, but I would not be too sure about that. To be honest, we have not had this problem reported before, and the same outputs that you use presumably being used by everybody else that uses a BK3.

I think the least expensive solution may be attenuating cables. But I would still check to make sure that the output is clean in the first place by checking on headphones…

BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

6 days 3 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #294
The signal is clean through my headphones. I think I may have to try the attenuating cables. I suspected that I may have to go down that route eventually.

My mixer amp is not the best. It is old and well used, so to be fair, the problem may not be fully down to the BK-3. I would still be using my G800 if it was still usable, but too many buttons packed in that it became pretty much unusable.

I bought the BK-3 on eBay for £260. I would love something better but unfortunately money doesn't allow at the moment. I should have checked the specifications better before buying. I just assumed that a Roland arranger keyboard would have line out sockets.

Anyway. Enough waffle from me. I really appreciate the help I have received from this forum. Thanks a lot

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

5 days 22 hours ago
Diki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 90
Karma: 2
More
No line out #295
I have one last thing you might want to check...

What kind of cables are you using? The BK-3 has a TRS stereo headphone out. But if you are using a 1/4"TRS to 1/4"TRS cable to plug into ONE mixer channel, the mixer may be expecting to see a balanced mono signal on a 1/4"TRS jack. This may well lead to distortion.

You will need a stereo 1/4"TRS to 2 mono 1/4"TS splitter cable, and use two channels (or a stereo channel with 2 1/4"TS inputs).

BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

5 days 16 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #296
I am using the cable you have suggested, 1/4" stereo jack to two mono jacks going into two separate mixer channels with the pad activated on the channels. I have also tried a 1/4" stereo jack into the RCA inputs on the mixer but with no improvement.

I think I'm stuck with it until something better comes up...

Just another thing. Do you have to strike the keys very hard on the BK-9 to trigger a thicker sounding piano sample? I do on my BK-3. It seems to trigger a much better piano sample if the keys are played forcefully.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

5 days 2 hours ago
Diki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 90
Karma: 2
More
No line out #297
OK, I'm kind of at a loss at this point. Admittedly, I don't think I've ever used a BK-3, but I find it surprising that you are getting this much distortion. I know my BK-9's headphone out is pretty clean at least until 60% of full output when run into either my stage monitoring (usually Mackie SRM150's, but also tried on QSC K10's) or my digital recorder (Zoom H4n). I usually run at 50% and everything's clean as a whistle.

Any chance of borrowing someone else's powered mixer/amp and checking to make sure it's not the mixer/amp? If possible, I might check that before you go and try the attenuating cables or a line pad/DI box. If the problem is in the mixer, none of that is going to help. If you can't get the sound clean by turning down to 10% and under, I doubt the attenuating stuff will help.

As to a 'better' piano sound at higher velocities, try adjusting the Key Touch to 'Low', which will make the higher velocity sample sound when hit softer. Are you a piano player, or have you come to the BK-3 from an organ or accordion type background? I have never really felt I need to strike any keyboard 'really hard', but I do come from playing piano and Rhodes', etc., so my touch is probably a lot harder than accordion or organ, which aren't velocity sensitive at all. And, again, I've never tried the BK-3 keybed. Can anyone who has tried both say if it's any significantly different to a BK-5 (which I have)?

You can also force the Part that is playing the piano into a 'Fixed' velocity, and can set it high enough your higher velocity piano sample plays all the time, but obviously you lose any dynamics at all. But if from an organ/accordion background, you may be used to that...

But until you have a clean signal to listen to, any adjustments right now may not be what you are after.

Last thing to check... Turn off all the Mastering Tools stuff (the EQ and compressor) and see if that helps clean things up. Personally, I am not a fan of what they do unless playing into pretty poor, cheap speakers. The default settings tend to hype the lows and highs, which might be pushing your rig into distortion.

BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

4 days 16 hours ago
trebleclef
New Member
New Member
Posts: 14
More
Topic Author
No line out #298
Do you mean the mastering tools stuff on the BK-3? If so, I will give that a try as that is something I haven't even thought of. I will also try to get my BK-3 tested through a different amp to see if that makes a difference. I am also at the stage where I've exhausted all possibilities.

As for the touch response, I did learn to play from scratch on a Yamaha electric organ, which had zero touch response. I do have a very light touch because of this. I also get notes randomly jumping out, which doesn't sound very pleasant, although I could control my G800 much easier. You can see me play the G800 on YouTube.



I am reluctant to turn the key touch off completely as I feel my touch will never improve, although it does sound better.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice, I will let you know how I go.

All the best,

Gary.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

4 days 3 hours ago
Diki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 90
Karma: 2
More
No line out #299
Yes, there's quite a jump in force control when you go from organs to velocity sensitive keyboards and especially pianos. It is going to feel tiring at first, but some proper practice will go a long way, and it gets easier after a while...

The BK-3 has a pretty light action (I can't see it being any heavier than a BK-5, which I consider a VERY light action!) so you ought to be able to adjust. But in the meantime, you can always adjust your RH voices to Low Key Touch, which will help you get harder velocities with less force.

If you have a piano you can play on for a while, that might help train your hands to play a bit harder.

BTW, when you are getting distortion in your Behringer, are any red lights flashing? Always turn down the inputs until that stops...

BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.