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Missing items

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Missing items #5789
When selecting a commercial midfile to play on the Roland E80,there are two items displayed,
equalizer and mixer (mfx),which can be edited.If you record a song on the E80 these two items
are no longer displayed,any idea why?
1 month 1 week ago

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Missing items #5791
They are displayed where? In the file browser, in the Makeup Tools, in the 16-Track Sequencer?
1 month 6 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Missing items #5792
Sorry,it`s in the Makeup Tools,incidently,older stuff that I recorded on the EM 2000 does display ok.
1 month 6 days ago

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Missing items #5793
I'm just guessing here, but perhaps the MFX and EQ data fields don't get displayed unless you add them (via regular Makeup Tools edits) and save the file?

It's probably a sysex thing, and if the commercial file isn't formatted for Roland (or is older, before the MFX and EQ codes were added), the field probably won't be displayed.
1 month 5 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Missing items #5798
That's surprising. Usually you have MORE editing features available if the midi is "native" to a particular board, or brand. (Yamaha's XF chords come to mind.) So you are saying you can do things with 3rd-party MIDIs that you CAN'T do with ones natively recorded on the E80?

I know there are two types of midi filed (Type 0 and Type 1.) I'm not 100% sure of the difference. I also know there are computer-based utilities to convert from one to the other. You could try changing types, and see if the missing options become available.

Another thing... there are some settings in the G/E series that talk about "quick start" etc. It has to do with how much of the MIDI file is read upon start-up to facilitate playing the song immediately. You might go through and disable the quick start, then see if the missing options appear.

Interesting find, going to keep following this thread...
1 month 4 days ago

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Missing items #5799
Thank you,I`ll have a look at the "quick start" function although page 142 of the E80 manual
shows the Makeup Tools page (song and style) with the MFX and EQ dislpayed.
1 month 4 days ago

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Missing items #5802
Do you have a DAW on your computer, Terry? If you do, try opening the file on that and take a look at the sysex at the start of the file. Perhaps these files are formatted for XG Yamaha format, which would not have the GS headers that might enable these features on your display.

Perhaps you could post one of the problem SMF's here, and we could take a look at it and see what the issue might be.

Another thing to try is to open the file in the E80, do a simple edit (change the drum kit, for instance) and then save the file (call it 'songE80 edit', to make sure you don't lose the original). Then reopen the new file, and see if the fields for MFX and EQ magically appear... It's possible they may be added during the save process.
1 month 3 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Missing items #5803
I`ll try your suggestion Diki,although I`ve discovered that ONLY the SONG Makeup tools page has the missing items
they are there on the STYLE Makeup tools page.I was unable to find anything in the "quick start"function to help.
I attempted to upload two SMF samples with a reply but was unable to because the .MID is not a valid file extension
for the forum,is there a work around?
1 month 3 days ago

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Missing items #5804
What I was referring to is item #4 on the left side of page 44, in the manual. Quote from the manual below:

Press the [SONG¥PLAY¥QUICK¥START] field and use
the [DATA÷ENTRY] dial to specify where and how
song playback should begin:
FROM SECOND BAR—This function causes playback to
start from measure 2 of the selected Standard MIDI File.
This is often useful, because the first bar of most Standard
MIDI Files contain SysEx and control change data
that “configure” the E-80’s sound source. Playing back
that measure on stage may lead to a rather long blank,
which you probably want to avoid.


As Diki mentioned, it does mention SysEx at the beginning of the midi file.
1 month 3 days ago Last edit: 1 month 3 days ago by TedS.

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Missing items #5807
@Terry Sutton,
You can pack your SMF's first and upload it as a zip archive.
1 month 2 days ago
Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820 and EMU Xboard61.

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Missing items #5808

File Attachment:

File Name: BADMOO1.zip
File Size:16 KB

File Attachment:

File Name: ALLGAME.zip
File Size:18 KB


If this works,here are two SMF,one (Badmoon)is a commercial one and the other is one I recorded on the E80.
TedS,I did try "FROM SECOND BAR function but it seemed to play from the start of the file.It`s just the SONG
Makeup Tools page where they are different.
1 month 2 days ago
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Missing items #5812
OK I checked both of these in MidiKit (great program for Mac for looking at raw MIDI data).

Both have a fair amount of Roland format sysex, the only thing that jumped out at me is that the Badmoon file had its GS reset command at the start, at 1.1.000, and the Allgame file had some Roland sysex at 1.1.000, and then the GS reset was at 1.1.001...

I don't have my G70 wired into my computer these days, so couldn't check it on that (you'd think they have the same problem!) but I put both files into the BK-9, and the fields for EQ and MFX were where they normally are... But the BK series has a very different way of doing Makeup Tools, no graphical touch screen and slider options, so it's all menu-driven. However, the fields for the data were definitely there.

One thing we haven't gone over is, have you tried opening the file in the 16-track sequencer rather than in the Makeup Tools? For starters, this would allow you to grab that errant GS reset and cut and paste it to 1.1.000. Secondly, have you tried a 'Freeze' on the Allgame file? This might sort out some stuff if you listen in the 16-Track Sequencer. Makeup edits don't play in the sequencer until you freeze them, and even that doesn't correct everything, stuff like drum edits and EQ's don't work until played by the Player - not the sequencer... (weird, isn't it?!).

My G70 didn't have an MFX for a Song or Style Part, so I'm not really familiar with this function on the E80 (G70 had one MFX only, which is why I consider the BK-9's 3 MFX for Song/Style and 2 MFX for Keyboard Parts such a huge step forward), so bear with me, I can't give a definitive answer yet..!

One thing I did notice as well was, the Badmoon file had a ton of Roland sysex at the start, so have you already Makeup Tooled the file? If so, do you still have the original commercial file before you messed with it?

A last thought... The G70/E80 styles had a boatload of Makeup Tool work on them, Roland did a fair bit of work fine tuning them after they first came out, and they often didn't freeze the style before adding it to the ROM. You can often help styles sound more similar when working on SMF's made from them in the 16-track sequencer (they sound fine in the Player, though) by freezing the style before you make an SMF of them. Try Freezing a style, saving it, using it to make an SMF, then see if the fields for MFX and EQ come back. You might also check the manual for what Tracks in the Sequencer get the Style Parts, and which are GS (which probably doesn't have the hook for MFX/EQ.

And always remember, you have 3 MFX for Song Parts, but they need to be enabled first (p.117 in the pdf manual, I think). Perhaps you skipped this step which is why they don't show up in Makeup Tools?
3 weeks 6 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Missing items #5813
BTW, a bit more investigation shows the badmoon file has the Enhancer MFX enabled for every track! Tends to make it a bit brittle, IMO...

Did you do this yourself, or was this file bought specifically for E80 (or a newer one for BK series)?

It certainly seems a poor use of the MFX (plus it appears that all three bands of EQ are boosted 2-4db on every Part!). If these were sold as is claiming they had been 'optimized' for E80, it certainly was a barebones effort (my apologies if you did this yourself, though!).

Careful use of all 3 MFX and thoughtful EQ can take an SMF (or Style) from 'OK' to 'Amazing!', but slapping the Enhancer on everything isn't the best way... You can achieve great results using things like amp sims on guitar Parts, a little compression on bass Parts, panners or stereo choruses on E. Piano Parts, stuff like that. If you want the whole thing brighter and bass boosted, you can always use the Mastering Tools for that!
3 weeks 6 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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Missing items #5814
Thanks Diki,thats a lot of information for me to take in and I`m probably out of my depth but to answer a couple
fo your points,I opened both of the songs in the 16 track sequencer and on the mastertrack edit page,both songs
started at 1-01-000.As for the ENHANCER,yes it was myself who enabled it but I thought it was only the visible track
I was changing not all of them.
3 weeks 6 days ago

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Missing items #5815
It’s possible that you may not have checked which tracks were assigned to the MFX. TBH, I was unfamiliar with this operation as the G70 didn’t have Song/style MFX. I rather doubt the BK is misreading the data...

I’d like you to load up your original file of badmoon again, and see if you spot any differences.

And yes, MidiKit showed both songs starting at 1.1.000, but allgame had its GS reset at 1.1.001, AFTER a bunch of sysex strings at 1.1.000 (which means that whatever happened prior to 1.1.001 was reset) and it is possible that the sysex for the MFX fields was part of that deleted stuff.

I’m not sure exactly how that GS reset ended up a tick late... could you detail your workflow, how you created the file, what editing you did and when, etc.? We’re you using Auto-Start? I think it’s safest to use Intro1 (the count off) which you can always erase later, that way the processor doesn’t have to deal with playing and sending all the sysex on the first tick. Plus, it makes playing along with the track easier when it has a count in...

There’s always a bit of a learning curve to getting good captures, but once you have a flow, it’s repeatable and second nature.
3 weeks 5 days ago
BK-9 BK-7m G70. Kurzweil K2500S, Korg Triton. Samick upright piano. iMac 27", HR824 monitors.

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