I am a BK9 owner now..
Here WOW!!!! after spending a couple hours A/B ing the BK9 and the G70 sounds through identical sound routing... Out of the box , the BK9 has the edge overall.. I am comparing original SMF's without edits played side by side.. I have the BK9 routed thru the G70 inputs and outputted to the same sound system, No mixer..
All mastering tools are off.
The BK9 has additional insert effects that can be used.. I did not check detail as to the modification/changes..
Real time played sounds shine with the BK9, thanks to in part the Super Natural selection..
Now what changes the game in my situation, I use the Studio SRX card in the G70.. this gives me the great drums and bass missing from a stock G70.. Add to this the great EP's Guitars, strings etc.. the G70 comes alive and could be conceived as sounding better than the BK9..
I can see where Diki and others declare the BK9 sounds better then the G70.. a stock G70 , I would agree the BK9 does sound better overall.
I am as happy as pig in slop.. To have two instruments that I don't believe can be matched by Korg or Yamaha... Maybe Genos? Have to wait till I try a Genos. Ketron RAM sounds would give the Roland's a run for the money, but only have about 40 RAM sounds in the SD7,9.
It looks to me that I am going to be a strong supporter of the BK9.
Now I have two discontinued models that I can't part with..
is my last post...
There's quite a lot of options to get your old G70's sound back on the BK-9. Obviously, those sounds are in different PC/00/32 locations than they would have been on the SRX card location, so you aren't hearing them yet by simply playing your old SMF's without Makeup Tooling to get the SRX sounds playing.
I used to use an SRX-07 Ultimate Keys in my G70. I am not comparing my BK-9 with a stock G70 (and I had the Strings and SR-G01 cards too). Obviously, there are SOME sounds on the cards I miss, but then again, there are new sounds in the BK-9 I didn't have in the G70 or the SRX cards, so it's a bit of a wash.
Now, if you do anything at all in style mode, get your fingers round the Chord Sequencer and realize this blows the G70 away (probably its lack is why you don't use style mode much at all).
Lastly, try playing regular whole piano in Pianist2 Mode, where it takes five new notes for a chord change when the sustain is down... unbelievable tracking accuracy and a far greater ability to play standard pianistics without freaking out the chord detection. It's a game changer.
Personally, this new into your BK-9's ownership, I wouldn't go making any definitive comparisons yet until you are more familiar with the BK-9. It took me a few months to realize just what a gem this little keyboard is!
You haven't scratched the surface yet, Fran!
I also have a Marantz voice rover for my small to medium venues for a lighter unit..
The K10's are shaped so that they can either sit as floor monitors (wedges), or pole mount for PA use, so they do double duty as monitors for big stage band work, and PA for smaller solo jobs. I also use an EV N/Dym microphone (through a TC Perform-VK into the BK's mic in) which has amazing feedback rejection, so most solo gigs, I sit ahead of my PA and enjoy the full sound without feedback.
They are only about 30 lbs each, so still pretty easily moved by us elderly types, LOL
Comparison Roland BK9 vs G70.
To own one or the other, would be complete satisfaction. To own both can cause indecision. They each have strengths and features over the other.
After spending dedicated time with the BK9 (purposely put the G70 away.), and then set up the G70 again for side by side comparison...sounds , styles and sequences.. The BK9 has a complete range of features that I like a lot.. the media player works well..
and the wave recorder and midi recorder, likewise.. The mic input is clear and powerful with phantom power too. Mic effects are good.The keybed is very playable.. Insert effects are plentiful . 3 for SMF's and 2 for realtime parts.
Super Natural sounds are just that,,, SUPER. Audio keys can be very useful, if you get pass the novelty and use them correctly.. First and formost , use drum loops..(audio drums). Storage galore, flashdrive does the job..
If this was your only keyboard, you would be a happy camper..
The G70 lacks the audio player and media player, but excells in all other aspects.. Touch screen spoils you.. you may get use to the BK9 screen operations but no substitute for G70 touch screen. Also for edited parts of SMF or styles .. no contest , G70 rules.. G70 adds "cover" for SMF's and styles..
The mic input is a bit less clear than the BK9, but adds more control and harmony.. The Singer key feature is a great feature.. The transpose is easier to use on the G70..
The separate outs are very useful and missed on the BK9.. Likewise the separate output from the mic..
Sound comparison resulted in a mixed bag..The BK9 with Super Natural sounds is really great.. Problem is... we can't use Super Natyral with Styles or SMF's as a sound source.. only realtime parts.. The G70 allowed us to use the SRX boards in both Style and SMF's..
I have listened in detail and although close in sound, the G70 just sounds better to me.. I watched a E80 vs BK9 video on youtube and the player showed the E80 sounded better, so I did the same comparisons and the same results... G70 was better sound...
If you only owned the BK9 , would never realize there was a better sound elsewhere..
The BK9 is 25 pounds lighter than the G70. And the quality difference in construction is reflected in the weight factor. I also have more trust in the Italian factory quality over the Chinese manufactureres..BTW: if I could only own the G70 or BK9...............It would be the G70.
Yes, touch screens spoil you, but you did just fine for the 30 years before they came along..! TBH, after adjusting my gig workflow, I'm actually doing LESS button pressing with the BK, and simply using more Performances set up with the changes preset. It's funny how that worked out! But I agree, when it comes to Makeup Tools editing (at least with vol/pan/cho/rev of the Parts) the touch screen worked faster. But need anything more, you still have to menu dive with the G70. BTW, all 'Cover' is is a set of preset Tone changes for a Style/SMF. You can do it quite quickly by hand and with more choice. Cover didn't change much else. It's quicker, but I always found myself spending a bunch of time fine tuning it, so pretty much a push, IMO.
The SRX boards didn't have SuperNatural, they were just normal Tones like the ROM. There really isn't any comparison. If you remember, the first Tyros's to use S.Art. sounds couldn't use them on styles or SMF's either. This is Roland's first generation of the technology. I expect they'll get them to styles and sequences soon.
Even with SRX boards, the drums in the BK are hugely better, basses are hugely fatter (although I miss some of my SRX-07 basses!), strings better, horns better, synths better (solo synths programmed in mono is a gamechanger for calling them up on the fly)... Yes, I miss a few of my SRX sounds, but the problem was I had 3 boards, and none of them had ALL my favorites on one, so there was considerable compromise in which one I gigged with.
And you didn't even mention the vastly improved B3 section... Finally the organ can be used properly, with overdrive coming before the final volume! TBH, the VK section is now close to Nord's, and definitely the best Hammond in an arranger.
I'd be interested in hearing which individual sounds you felt were better. I can take a listen. Remember, there are many extra choices in the BK for things like horns, strings, Rhodes, etc., so judging the BK by comparing identical legacy sounds isn't really doing it justice. Pick the BEST sounds in each category, and the BK usually comes ahead.
It's more what you DON'T have in the G70 that made the difference, not what the G70 had that the BK didn't. I can't live without those SN guitars (the jazz one is the foundation for all my rock and jazz leads). I can't live without that amazing Hammond. I can't live without the audio playback capabilities (I use audio backing almost 60% these days, and hate the idea of hauling around a laptop and all the associated stuff needed to integrate it). I can't live with choosing between lyrics OR songlist, mixer, etc. on screen at the same time. I can't live without those sliders for voice and MFX control. I can't live without the Chord Sequencer when I'm in Style Mode.
I can't live with having to haul something else around to play break music. I can't live without more than one drumkit in style mode. I can't live with needing a mixer to have decent mic pre's for my vocals. I can't live with convoluted backup for the Internal and Card memories, and database corruption or confusion moving stuff from one to the other. I can't live with no MFX's for the styles or SMF's, and only one for the Keyboard Parts.
Nobody loved their G70 more than me. And it took more than a few weeks to come around to the BK-9. But eventually, what I gained far outweighed what I lost. Let's revisit this after a year, Fran. I have a feeling you might change your mind...
The dominant G70 factor for me is the touchscreen... and yes the Organ is improved on the BK9..
One of the things that annoys me with the BK9... I use a large selection of SMF's, and the default drums usually goes to the Standard new 1 and 2.. and they are terrible as a default..
The other bug that annoys me, transposed on the G70 does not translate well to the BK9... They corrected this on the EA7..
I have to remove the system exclusive script..
The EA7 also had the ability to enlarge the lyrics as the G70 does... Not available on the BK9..
I can see your point about using Performances.. it is something I never relied on,,
No way , was I knocking the BK9... I just wish Roland would take some updates they applied to the EA7 and make them available on the BK9..
Does anyone have thoughts about adding the Integra 7?
The touchscreen is definitely something I missed horribly at first, but trust me, change your workflow to using more Performances per song, and you will find how little you miss it, eventually.
You might want to use Makeup Tools to find which ROM drumkit is the best to replace whatever your G70 uses, and then use a PC macro program to find ALL your SMF's with the default drums and set them to use your favorite BK-9 kit.
I tend to hand convert EVERYTHING, so that's not as big an issue with only a few hundred sequences, but if you have a library of thousands (no doubt old-ish Sound Canvas era files, right?) you might want to look into a macro program, and create a map of best new Tones to old Tones, and have your computer do it all for you. Personally, I found the old SC era drumkits too hard to leave to the defaults, because they were one vel-x sample sounds. The minute we went to up to four sample cross-switched drum sounds, the velocity the Part was programmed with became critical, and old SC drumkits made no difference between high velocity/low volume and low velocity/high volume programming.
Sooner or later, to get the best out of them, you really need to dig in and hand convert them to the new kits. The difference is amazing! Old flat boring drum parts can be made to shine.
If you DO have consistent drum Parts in the old sequences, another thing to try is convert ONE of them by hand, carefully adjusting drum sounds, EQ's and velocity/volume ratio in the Makeup tools, then save that sys-ex string (save the Makeup Tools edits and export the SMF to your computer) and simply apply it to the start of the whole lot of them..!
With the BK-9 discontinued (for at least a year, I think) I don't think anyone reasonably could expect Roland to update it, Fran! And at this point, it doesn't look good for Roland bringing out a new BK-9 equivalent TOTL arranger. As far as I am concerned, I am betting that Roland stick to E-A7 level arrangers from now on (which is a great keyboard for its price point, but it's no BK-9!) and pretty much abandon the high ground to Yamaha and Korg. They abandoned the $3500 level after the E80, and now it seems they've abandoned even the $1900-2400 market to the S9x0 and PA1000 arrangers. Shame, but what can we do, LOL?
So, bottom line, you either find workarounds and workflow changes to use the BK-9, or you are stuck without a 76, without SN sounds, without a Chord Sequencer, Without any sequencer (LOL), without the VK organ, etc., etc..
I have workarounds for just about everything I miss from the G70. But I have no workarounds on the G70 for stuff I'd miss from the BK-9! That's what made the decision for me.
But it grows on you once you admit to yourself it ISN'T an updated G70. It's its own thing, and approach it that way, find what works, not try to shoehorn what used to work onto it, and it turns into, IMHO, the finest arranger Roland ever made.
If this is Roland's TOTL swan song, it went out on a high note!
I have found one issue that could be big for me... where is the Canvas Piano tone???? It was probably one of my most commonly used piano sounds on the G70!!
I have also connected the Ipad to use the Bk9 editor which works very well!
Another thing I am trying to figure out is in the rhythm edit section, I am trying to remove a certain sound out of a drum track without erasing the rest of the sounds in that track.. for example - the track has a kick, hi hat and ride cymbal. I want to erase all the Hi hat sounds.... is there a quick and easy way to do this?
Fran - its an amazing coincidence we scored a BK9 so close in time together eh I have honestly been checking ebay almost weekly for 2 years and one just came up that was only a 20 min drive away from my place.
PS: @Diki - I couldnt recover my old account so I had to create a new one....
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