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TOPIC: BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes

BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 10 Oct 2017 19:32 #6306

  • Attila
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MIDI Recording Reverb parameter Changes.
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:48 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 10 Oct 2017 23:20 #6309

  • Diki
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I'd have a REALLY careful read of the MIDI section of the manual... ;)

What I think you have done is set the MIDI parameters for 'SONG' rather than for 'Key/Rhythm'. Pay particular attention to the explanations in the 'Loading a MIDI Set' section.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 10 Oct 2017 23:49 #6310

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I'm gonna read the manual.
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:49 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 11 Oct 2017 00:19 #6311

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Manual is full of information.
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:50 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 11 Oct 2017 01:03 #6312

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I think pressed the wrong button...
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:50 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 11 Oct 2017 16:31 #6313

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Thank You.
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:06 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 11 Oct 2017 23:58 #6318

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I have recorded myself to MIDI playing styles many times. I have not had this issue. It always sounded exactly the same. On the other hand, to be honest, I don't think I ever simply called up a Perf. and tried to record without at least playing something first! Maybe you are different, but I tend to like to get warmed up a bit before the red light goes on!

Can you try to detail what you may have done in the past to alter the ROM setups? Do you use a computer? Have you ever altered anything to accommodate that?

Or do you have SMF Quick Start enabled (although I rather doubt that applies here)?

When I get my keyboard back to the house, I will investigate.

It appears you and I both have found a decent workaround, so it's not really a heavy issue, is it? (if it really IS an issue)
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 13 Oct 2017 00:10 #6321

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Ok
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:05 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 13 Oct 2017 08:10 #6322

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Can't really help much. I don't use Cakewalk or Windows.

TBH, I have ALWAYS used the on-board sequencers (if they had one) for initial style 'capture'. The dirty little secret no-one talks about (well, not since the 80's!) is timing jitter and MIDI 'slop'. Because of the serial nature of MIDI (all messages one after another) and also the lack of integration into the OS (last computer with REALLY tight MIDI timing was the Atari ST, LOL), and also since Steinberg and a couple of other forward looking manufacturers ceased trying to make MIDI interfaces that pre-buffer and squirt out the MIDI locked more tightly to timecode (still have an old Midex3, that with the old Cubase drivers and Cubase integration still had fairly tight timing), sadly, hardware MIDI has gone backwards as far as timing goes.

BTW, you don't detail your MIDI interface or whether you are using MIDI over USB (drivers matter, here)...

But, in general, if you compare an SMF of an internal 'capture' compared to a capture over MIDI, you see FAR more 'on time' (events that are supposed to be on 1.1.001 actually being on 1.1.001!) on the internal capture than over MIDI.

A full style+keyboard Parts MIDI stream is a LOT of data, including sys-ex, trying to squeeze down one badly designed 80's data pipe! It is a lot for a serial interface to deal with!

And part of the problem is that so many people have gone to VSTi's, which don't get squeezed down ANY pipe, and are sample accurate, so there is little incentive on the industry to fix it, or write expensive low-level drivers for the MIDI interfaces (that require constant updates as OS's change).

But don't panic if you see little timing fluctuations in the List Edit... not until you can actually HEAR them! If you can't, relax! If you can, then there are some workarounds...

First is, record the backing FIRST. Don't try to add all YOUR playing on top of it.

Still hear a little slop (some of us are pretty sensitive to 'groove'!)?

If you can get the computer to sync to the arranger or vice-versa (it is preferable to have the computer sync to the arranger, if it can, so if you do a ritardando or accelerando,, it still keeps the events inside the bar properly - you may have trouble getting the computer to record what the tempo changes were, and may have to note later what the new tempo is, and how many beats/bars it takes to get there, and recreate the tempo map in the DAW), try recording only a few Parts at a time. It helps to use the Chord sequencer here, so that the input is consistent from take to take (although you will have to hand trigger the Divisions each time). The alternative is record the initial chord sequence into the computer and route that track to the NTA channel. That way you can add the Division commands (the manual has them somewhere) to the trigger sequence.

You get this down, if you want the tightest possible timing, record each style Part individually!

But, to clarify, while you are having your problem in the OP, you aren't connected to the computer at all?
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 13 Oct 2017 08:20 #6323

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BTW, take a look at the first bar of any capture in a DAW list edit, and marvel at how much sys-ex is getting sent! You want an explanation why the timing might be off a hair in the first bar, there's your answer.

The deal is, sys-ex 'strings' MUST be sent all at once (not the whole package, but at least each full message). With longer packages, not even MIDI timing data, let alone notes or controllers can be sent..! That initial burst of sys-ex (it is primarily all the Makeup Tools and effects parameters) really messes with timing if the style is really busy in the first few beats (and even more if you are sending it to a computer).

Try using Intro1 FIRST (and then go to the Intro you really want afterwards), and that will thin out any timing, plus send most of the sys-ex out before the style even starts (where you want it to start!)....
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 14 Oct 2017 03:54 #6327

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:cheer:
Last Edit: 24 Oct 2017 05:06 by Attila.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 14 Oct 2017 16:14 #6330

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I have a Mac, so Cakewalk and Windows are right out! Lately I've been using Reaper...

And sadly (not!) my gig schedule has been busy enough I rarely have the arranger set up at home. I'll test this as soon as I can.

I always used to have problems with SMF's that the count-in click starts immediately on bar 1.1.001, exactly because of that sys-ex burst at the beginning, so yes, I always make a point to edit in an extra bar of silence (even just a bar of 1/4 will do) and cut and paste all the sys-ex data to the new 'one'. Solves the problem completely.
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BK-9 after MIDI Recording "Reverb" param. changes 17 Oct 2017 01:43 #6341

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It sounds like your midi data for volume and effects is sending before your recorded data begins.. Can you add a measure in front or resend the performance again after recording has started...This way you won't record the default setting.
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