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TOPIC: EV-5 volume reduction

EV-5 volume reduction 04 Aug 2017 17:32 #6173

  • timtrax
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I have a situation where (on my BK9) my EV-5 pedal reduces my right hand volume by approx. 20% - even when the pedal is at full volume. When I turn the keyboard on,, with the default piano sound, the overall volume is about 80%. When playing a midi file, the pedal reduces the RH by 20% (but no effect on the midi file.)
I went to a music store and plugged a new EV-5 in and it had the same result. Without the pedal plugged in, the BK9 volume is 100%. With the pdeal plugged iin, the overall volume or the right hand is about 80%.
I did a factory reset yesterday - which hasn't changed anything.
The practical effect is that, when playing along with a midi file, I have to pound the crap out of the right hand to match the midi file - even with the balance knob is adjusted.
So....it seems like the pedal is not the problem. There must be some volume adjustment for the pedal, deep in the bowels of the BK9. - or some larger electronic problem
Yes, I have looked. Any suggestion exactly where I should be looking?/what I should be doing?
-Tim
Last Edit: 04 Aug 2017 17:34 by timtrax.
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EV-5 volume reduction 04 Aug 2017 20:07 #6174

  • Diki
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Did you look at the little knob on the side of the EV-5? It should be set to zero. If it is set higher, the pedal will not completely close off.

Are you SURE the Expression pedal is being plugged into the Expression input (and NOT the 'Control' input)?

Does the jack exhibit any 'wiggle'? The plug should fit firmly with little to no play.

That you tried this with a new pedal after a factory reset and had the same result might seem to indicate a short of some kind in the input jack. I have both EV-5 and EV-7 and have NEVER encountered this.
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EV-5 volume reduction 05 Aug 2017 12:37 #6175

  • loshk
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This information may be useful


Level.jpg


Roland-EV-5-Service-Manual-1.png
Roland E-80 v.2.01 (SRX-01, 02, 10), Roland M-GS64, Roland XV-5050, Ketron SD-2, Edirol PCR-500, Edirol M-16-DX, Kawai MAV-8
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EV-5 volume reduction 05 Aug 2017 18:02 #6176

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I don't see this as the issue, though, Loshk. For starters, it is not a range 'scaling' knob. It isn't supposed to affect the value of the pedal in its 'down' position, merely the value of the pedal in its 'up' position.

With my EV-5, you can set that knob anywhere, it doesn't cause a drop in volume when the pedal is fully depressed (the issue that Tim has), it only changes the volume when the pedal is raised (from completely off to no change at all).

As I said, particularly in light of Tim having the same issue when using a brand new pedal, I am of the opinion that either he is putting it in the wrong jack (unlikely), or more likely, there is a short or partial ground issue with the Expression jack in the BK-9 itself.

There are no 'scaling' parameters anywhere in the BK-9 OS that are global. You can set Up and Down values for Expression depth on a per Keyboard Tone and Per Performance basis, but this should NOT affect the instrument globally, and should DEFINITELY not affect the instrument if a keyboard reset and playing through the initial default Startup Performance is initiated. Default Expression parameters are Keyboard Parts ONLY, and full 0-127 value for each Part.

My money is on the jack having been stressed by perhaps moving the keyboard when forgetting to unplug the pedals first, and some kind of partial short.

Tim?
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EV-5 volume reduction 05 Aug 2017 18:14 #6177

  • Diki
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BTW, I sometimes use the Expression pedal to do a Keyboard Tone change completely hands free if I am not using my FC-7 (Change UPR1/2 is a handy FC-7 choice if you are using one)

There are often times when I am playing two-handed, and can't (or don't want to!) stop playing to use the Performance Up/Down buttons (or Assign Switch set to Change UPR1/2, or the Part Select buttons), but need to do a sound change. What to do?

Set one Part to be full volume with pedal down, off with pedal up, then reverse that for the other Tone. Now up gets you one Tone, down the other...

You can also do some real dreamy ambient pad sounds by layering four different pads (if in Whole Mode) then adjusting where in the Expression Pedal's travel range they come in and go out...
Last Edit: 05 Aug 2017 18:15 by Diki.
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EV-5 volume reduction 05 Aug 2017 18:25 #6178

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Diki wrote:
Set one Part to be full volume with pedal down, off with pedal up, then reverse that for the other Tone. Now up gets you one Tone, down the other...
...

This is very original! I did it and now I will use it
Roland E-80 v.2.01 (SRX-01, 02, 10), Roland M-GS64, Roland XV-5050, Ketron SD-2, Edirol PCR-500, Edirol M-16-DX, Kawai MAV-8
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EV-5 volume reduction 05 Aug 2017 23:28 #6179

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it's a Old G1000 users trick
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EV-5 volume reduction 06 Aug 2017 02:22 #6180

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aviro wrote:
it's a Old G1000 users trick

And an old Kurzweil trick, and an old Korg trick, and an old analog trick, and... :evil:

But it also has more potential... Rather than mere switching, you can bring up (or down) the Piano/Pad balance for sounds like that that are very common in piano backing. It used to be a way to fade from one organ registration to another rather than moving the sliders or fade in some upper partials or the uneven bars hands free. It is a way to alter the balance between brass and saxes when doing ensemble stuff, or add a 'slap and pop' to a fingered bassline, to change between muted and open strings on guitar and banjo/mandolin sounds, to add some spiccato to a string section to give runs definition without making it spiky all the time.

Particularly in situations where you have Whole mode on, think of all the variation you can do to a sound when you can fade through up to FOUR different sounds...

There is a reason it is called the 'EXPRESSION' pedal, not just a 'volume' pedal! B)
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EV-5 volume reduction 06 Aug 2017 18:55 #6181

  • timtrax
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Diki: Thank you for your serious thoughts on my problem! I hadn't planned on bringing this up, but you recall I am the fool who used WD-40 on my pedal. That was my original pedal from about five years ago so I ended up throwing it away. Then I got a new pedal and that's when my problem started occurring. At this point I don't think I have any choice but to take it to a repair place. I can't imagine the WD-40 on the pedal caused this problem, more likely it got pulled out too roughly or something like that. I will keep y'all posted on the final result!
-Tim
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EV-5 volume reduction 07 Aug 2017 00:06 #6182

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One last idea... Did you perform the reset with the pedal plugged in and perhaps not fully depressed?

Because of potential calibration issues, I tend to make sure that ALL connected controllers are unplugged when I do system resets on anything... You never know if the firmware looks at input values to determine a calibration zero point. I know it's a long shot, and still stand by my most likely scenario culprit of a bad input jack, but it can't hurt to try!
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EV-5 volume reduction 08 Aug 2017 17:51 #6183

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I've been to my local authorized Roland repair place a guy who happens to be a keyboard player. We tested various petals. My EV five works as it should when it's hooked up to a Crumar organ. When it's hooked up to the BK nine there's a volume drop of about 20%. He tells me there is nothing wrong with the BK nine and there's nothing wrong With the EV five. My suspicion is that all EV 5's work like this. So I'd like you owners of the BK nine and the EV5 five to test it out and see if there's a volume drop when you plug that thing in.
Also: we discovered that several other pedals also drop the volume from the BK nine. Including the YAMAHA and a Boss expression pedal. Shocking eh?!
-Tim
Last Edit: 08 Aug 2017 19:20 by timtrax. Reason: New info
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EV-5 volume reduction 08 Aug 2017 18:39 #6184

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Read my post earlier. I have both EV-5 and EV-7. Neither exhibits ANY drop in volume when plugged in, unless I program a Performance to do that. I'm assuming you never did.

But to doublecheck, start up your BK-9 and DO NOT select a Performance You will be listening to the Performance saved as 'Save as Default'.

Go to the Menu>Performance Edit page of UPR 1 (although I'm presuming ALL Keyboard Parts take the 20% reduction, right?), then Tone Part View>Expression Pedal, and make sure the Ped Exp Up value is 0 and Ped Exp Down value is 127.

If they are (and you are listening to UPR1 when the volume drop occurs), then the problem is pretty much sure to be a problem with the input jack. Possibly something got in there, dirt, contaminants, who knows what and is shorting something out, or the jack itself got damaged and has a faulty solder connection.

Do you play in a beach environment? That salt air is pretty toxic to less expensively made products. I have already gone through two pitch bend levers and have intermittent slider issues, but I play several times a week on the beach in Florida. That's a possible culprit, but hasn't affected mine with regard to the expression input at all.

But I can assure you we have never received a report of this issue you have at all, which would be pretty obvious if it was a design flaw or bug.

Get the BK-9 to an authorized dealer, have him do the calibration check routines laid out in the Service Manual, and see if the input jack is seeing the full values.
Last Edit: 08 Aug 2017 18:42 by Diki.
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EV-5 volume reduction 10 Aug 2017 00:26 #6185

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verry strange problem! :ohmy:
Last Edit: 10 Aug 2017 00:38 by aviro.
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EV-5 volume reduction 22 Aug 2017 18:57 #6194

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Any progress, Tim? We would very much like to get to the bottom of this. However as you can see, we have no other reports of this incident, so my bet is a hardware problem with your BK9
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EV-5 volume reduction 29 Aug 2017 19:33 #6207

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There is progress. I've had it back to the authorized Roland person. He confirms there is a 30-40% volume drop on the pedal; output. (I'm sorry - I hope I'm expressing that correctly - bottom line - something is wrong)
He has given me 2 choices. 1. replace the entire output board for about $700 Canadian +++ or he will order some parts and will work on it for $60 an hour.
I have opted for working on it. The parts have arrived. So..it's going to him Sept. 1 (as I'm away for 2 weeks) I will be back to the forum about Sept 15 with ,hopefully, a good progress report. Thank y'all for your interest in this problem.
UPDATE SEPT 14: The Expression jack has been replaced. There was no change. I know my Roland repair man was talking back and forth to the Roland rep at the Canadian headquarters in Vancouver. The bottom line is I am faced with replacing the input board for about $1000 or live with it as is. Or find a used one. Anyone know of a wrecked BK9 that still works?
All people concerned are puzzled by this but I have taken the keyboard back home to use as is.

btw what is a BK9 warranty like, if any?
-Tim
Last Edit: 14 Sep 2017 23:46 by timtrax.
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