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TOPIC: Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance..

Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 24 Jul 2017 00:13 #6139

  • mwgkeys
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I just got hired to fill in for 15 gigs with a cover band. Im typically a jazz player and only use a handful of sounds. on my Bk9.
For this gig I need about 15 different combinations of splits, layers and octave shifts that can be called up instantly. Ive used the BK9 partner to identify 33 patches that I will use to cover the song list... Now I need to figure out the smartest way to quickly call the patchs up without having to push a lot of buttons. I can use the 9 favorite patch locations for Mbass, Lower, UP2, UP1....but I can't seem to save the octave switches I need. Is the ONE TOUCH feature a good solution ? Im not using any of the rhythms...this is a live band. But calling up a rhythm, hitting the one touch gives me 4 set ups ready to go...I could set up 4 or 5 Rhythms with edited ONE TOUCH sets Is there a more efficient way ?
Mark
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 24 Jul 2017 09:38 #6143

  • Torbjoern
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Make a performance list with 33 diffrent performances.
Last Edit: 24 Jul 2017 09:38 by Torbjoern. Reason: wrong word
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 24 Jul 2017 20:46 #6146

  • Diki
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^^^ Exactly!

The Performance List is your best friend for playing in live bands.

Not only can you preset Tones, layers, effects, split points. volumes, etc., but you can also set up adjacent Performances to easily change LH or RH sounds without disturbing the LH sounds.

I have a simple naming convention if you aren't going to go to the time of making a Performance per song...

Pno/Brass
Pno/Organ
RHds/Strings
Org/Pno-Strings (a layer)

Stuff like that.

Easy to spot in a hurry what you want. I tend to organize by comping LH sound (what you tend to change the least) and then have the RH Tones and layers all in a group. Switching is generally seamless unless there's some MFX changes, which you can get around by having alternate UPR1 and UPR2 active on adjacent Performances (so as the Tone and MFX changes, so does the Part - obviously, not as easy to accomplish if the RH is a layer!)

You can ALSO set up Favorite Tones (ten per Part, they can be different for UPR1 and UPR2 etc.) that you can always throw into the mix if you get creative or the band goes off on a tangent (always good to have some steel drums or a flute handy for a change from your usual solo sounds).

There is also a huge library of usable Tone setups lurking in the OTS's and the MA list. If you put Performance Hold to 'Tones' while creating these setups (remember to turn it back off afterwards!) you can select the MA Performance with the Tones and effects you like, change to your 'Live Band' Performance list and select your normal setup (in which you would be wise to turn off all arranger reception and arranger Parts so you don't accidentally start it while the band is playing!), but because Performance HOLD is 'holding the Tones from the previous Performance, you can now name and write it to your Live Band List.

Just simple Tone selection doesn't really get the job done. Levels can be iffy, effects for one may not work for others, split points may not be ideal. stuff like sustain pedal and expression pedal assignments need to change for whether you want the LH or RH to sustain (piano comps need the sustain, RH brass gets nasty if they sustain the same, LOL).

Use Performances. 33 setups is an afternoon's work, especially if you get a basic 'Template' Performance first, with the controller and split assignments in it, where you simply add the Tones and save under a different name.

Don't forget, once you make the List, you can easily reorder it (by using the 'Move Performance' command) so you can put it in an optimal order. Push comes to shove, if the band does a frantic segue that gives you no time to scroll, you can reorder the set (or copy to a new List and order for that night, then step through the List one at a time).
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 25 Jul 2017 00:12 #6152

  • aviro
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Just a suggestion on Diki's excellent instruction
You can also make a performance list for every individual song! in your case that will-be 33 performance-lists
WHY?
A-The order off sounds/setting into a song are always the same! (you can step to the next perf setting. by foot pedal "next perf.")
you never accidentally step to a perf. from another song!!!!!

B-The order of songs you play on a gig always changing!!?
The only one thing you have to do is when you finnish a song go to the perf.list and select the matching singel-song perf.list for the next song you want to play.
Note: if you store and label a perf.list you start the name with a number so it will already be into a ("play-list") order into the My performance map

That's on-stage a 1-2-3 click action! to go from one song to another. on the bk9.... no bk-partner needed
1push performans-list button >>2scroll and push selected. (song) >>>>3push again to select nr1 perf.mem to start with
Last Edit: 25 Jul 2017 00:32 by aviro.
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 25 Jul 2017 19:14 #6155

  • Diki
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While I feel it is a possible solution, I am not a big fan of this idea. It turns a one button push into a slow three step process.

I'm not sure if Aviro plays in bands that segue or transition from one song to another very quickly, but I do not see how having to call up another Performance List and THEN select the Performance is any better than simply calling up the next Performance in the SAME List. OK, I guess if you tend to be very clumsy and often select the wrong button, it's an added degree of safety (at the expense of speed and convenience), but I can't for the life of me recall the last time I accidentally changed a Performance without intending to... B)

During live play or SMF/MP3's that need multiple setups, I tend to simply name the Performance [song]Intro, [song]Verse [song]Solo, etc. and I really don't have to duplicate them in case a setup is used more than once. If you leave the active screen in Performance List, the Inc/Dec buttons step through them, or yes, if you use an FC-7, you can use two switches for Perf.Up/Down. I use this system on my BK-7m, which doesn't have Inc/Dec buttons...

One thing I have learned from playing live is, things change! Song orders get changed on the fly, songs get added, dropped. A system that locks you in too tight to a preset scheme can often get in your way when people start improvising... Bear this in mind when you prepare the BK-9 for this gig. Leave yourself room to quickly change to something else if the need arises!

Personally, in your case mwg, I would go with making a Performance per song (or two or three, depending on how many sound changes it needed) and have those at the top of the Performance List (and order them alphabetically). But at the bottom, I would put in a whole bunch of generic setups (whole piano, Rhodes with a nice chorus/tremolo to taste, B3, Clavinet, etc.), then a whole bunch of my split suggestions named so you can easily find them. This way, if a song gets called that the other songs' setups doesn't really cover (or you have to try and remember which was the one with the clavinet at the bottom and the piano/strings at the top!) you can quickly scroll down to the bottom of the list and pick a generic setup...

I play a LOT with live bands with my arranger (in fact, until the last few years, I hardly used the arranger section at all!) and have always found them the most practical keyboard for going and doing pickup gigs and covering someone at short notice. WS's can often sound superior given enough time to program them VERY carefully, but I have always found the arranger so much easier to quickly put the sounds, effects and levels of sounds in a split even when called for something I had not prepared for.

BTW, don't forget, at rehearsal (if you get one!) or on the gig, it's a piece of cake (and very quick) to save whatever adjustments you made to the sound, its level or effects depth. A quick tap on the Write button and a 'yes' to whether you want to overwrite the Performance gets you your live tweaked setup the next time you need it!

One last tip...

If you use generic setups for different songs, it pays to turn the Keyboard Part Effects' Chorus to Delay instead. If a sound really NEEDS a chorus, you can use an MFX (you rarely find that more than one sound needs that!) or use a Tone that is already chorused (there are several Rhodes that are chorused with no effects), but delay on the lead sounds is a must. The advantage to using the chorus send is, it is available for any Part that needs it without a bunch of malarkey assigning MFX to the Long Delay preset, but also, by default, the Delay send effect is synced to tempo...

This means, for solo sounds with some echo on them, all you have to do is tap the Tap Tempo button along with the drummer's count in, and your effects are now in time with the music! Tap either duple or triple time (4:2 or 3:2 etc.) and you can have some nice complex repeating echoes on synth sounds or lead guitars, etc. that don't mess with the groove!

All of my generic setups have some delay on the lead sound that is synced to tempo. And my bandmates will look amazed when my solos always have that perfectly timed echo on them! :evil:
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 25 Jul 2017 20:35 #6158

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Thank you for all of the insight guys. I really appreciate your guidance.
I have made a Performance List for this gig. Last night I put together 13 performances. Im going to do one for each tune...Using the iPad Editor/Partner has made it fairly easy to do. I had already identified the patches needed for each song. The Performance setup is letting get the split points, octave settings, effects all tailored for each tune...Now if I can just remember all the parts I have to cover ! =) This gig is more about orchestration that any real playing...unlike my usual jazz trio gig... I am finding the use of the Performance List is going to make the gig much easier... I filled in with this band last year for a few gigs and tried to use the Favorites to call up the sounds on the fly...that was a little cumbersome. Now I just dial up the tune and Im good to go. This band runs a tight set list - they make it up ahead of time and do not waver from it. Im putting my performances in the order of the sets. Should be pretty easy.
Thank you again !!! You guys rock
Mark
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 25 Jul 2017 23:52 #6159

  • Diki
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Cool...

I have long felt that the keyboardist's role in a cover band is FAR more than what you would do in a simple piano trio type situation. And arranging or orchestration pretty much sums it up. You have to stop thinking in terms of comp and lead, and start treating your LH and RH as really two RH's! There will be times when you need to do leads with the left if the RH is covering something else complex, or brass lines, or string or synth lines, etc..

It is a definite change of approach, but one that can be infinitely rewarding in a different way than straight-ahead piano playing...

Add to that the need to not play EVERYTHING on the record note for note - You rarely have enough hands to play everything on the record! So there is always a degree of creativity as you make a sort of 'précis' of the arrangement, trying to imply everything without actually playing it all! My main area of interest at college was orchestration and arranging. I never in my wildest dreams back in the 70's that I would have an inexpensive keyboard that could actually pull off most of it live!
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 27 Jul 2017 00:59 #6160

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You make excellent points Diki...I dd about 12 years with a cover band in 1990 - 2012...used 2 keyboards and a module...and just as you say, I had to cover the important parts, imply others and choose what was the most musical and important part to cover. I enjoyed it but personally I like the jazz improv with a single sound more than anything...Two different types of musicianship but a professional should be able to do both and take both seriously.
Mark
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Patch's, Splits, Layers & Oct Shift organization for live performance.. 27 Jul 2017 20:57 #6161

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Very true...

BTW, I don't know if you have tried this yet, but try selecting a jazz style, hit the Track Mute button (which will strip the style backing down to just bass and drums) and enable the Dynamic Arranger. Now just try to play normal solo piano. If you haven't already, set the Chord Recognition to Pianist2 and Bass Inv [ON]...

This is as close to a real piano trio I think I have ever heard from an arranger. The drums and bass track your dynamics, and the Pianist2 mode does a far better job of recognizing chord changes and not freaking out than any system Korg and Yamaha have. They still haven't implemented the '5 notes to get a new chord when sustain is down' bit that makes Pianist2 so much better than the simple '3 notes down to get a new chord whether pedal up or down' system we all used to have.

I have endless hours of fun improvising jazz jams, playing the head reasonably simply while the Chord Sequencer records the changes (helps if you sing the head while you are doing this if a vocal tune), then letting the CS take over the changes and get as outside as you like after that!

A good trick to get variety out of the basslines is to record the chord sequence using all inversions, NOT root position of the chords while you lay the head down (with Bass Inv turned OFF). This will sound 'normal' while you do it, and normal while you improvise, but turn Bass Inv OFF now and again (you can set this up as an FC-7 choice, or the Control Pedal, so you can do it hands-free) and the bassist will now change to those alternate inversion patterns. It sounds very cool!

BTW, if you haven't already, I highly recommend finding an FC-7 pedal (or building your own if a real one is unavailable). As a pianist, I find it excruciating to have to stop playing to hit buttons! Putting the majority of the button pushing to your feet helps you keep your normal playing techniques and habits, and turn Variation and Fills, Bass Inv, Track Muting etc. over to your feet. The less you have to change how you like to play with REAL people, the better the arranger experience is, IMHO...
Last Edit: 27 Jul 2017 21:20 by Diki.
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