Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Performance List compatibility

Performance List compatibility 04 Jul 2017 21:16 #6066

  • Diki
  • Diki's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1871
  • Thank you received: 394
  • Karma: 29
Maybe it's a bit late to start this, but I just wanted to find out about Performance List compatibility after I found out that E-A7 Performance Lists cannot be read by BK series arrangers (at least, not by my BK-9!). This makes sense, obviously, because there are things in the E-A7 that do not exist in the BK series (sampler, multi-pads, 3 UPR sounds, etc.) so data for those things would not be read in a BK.

But I had always assumed that even with BK series arrangers, a lesser model wouldn't be able to read a more advanced model's data. Turns out, I was WRONG (yes, it happens! :woohoo: ).

I have been working exclusively with my BK-9 for a couple of years or so, and have an extensive gig Performance List with styles, SMF's and, more recently, MP3's. I decided to try transferring all the data from my BK-9 stick to my little BK-7m stick to see what would happen. Imagine my surprise when it ALL worked!

Now, obviously, there are some differences, especially with the SMF's that use Tones and kits exclusively in the BK-9. I am in the process of re-Makeuping those sequences. And naturally, any Keyboard Parts that use BK-9 Tones need adjusting to use BK-7m Tones (I am sure going to miss those SN guitars and the VK organ section!) but even so... I have saved a TON of work already!

I do have a fair bit of work to do to the Performances, as I intend the BK-7m to be used with a keytar (I have an old but still amazing feeling KX-5), but having the Performance List work has saved me a ton of work. The goal is to be able to do guerilla gigs and sitting in without bringing a ton of gear and taking up a lot of stage room, but still have the majority of my normal gig easily able to work with the keytar. More on this as it progresses.

But back to the main topic... Backwards compatibility. Do any of you have further experience with taking a List from say a BK-7m or BK-5 and using it on a BK-3? Or BK-5 to BK-7m, etc.? Let me know of your experiences doing this.

This may also be a way to get G70/E80 UPS Lists into earlier BK series keyboards. If earlier than the BK-9 BK series arrangers cannot read the UPS files from the G70/E80, there is a tool in the BK-9 to convert a G/E series UPS and all its UPG's into a BK-9 Performance List. Which, it seems, IS readable by earlier BK arrangers. If anyone with a BK-5/3/7m has a bunch of G/E series data they want put in a BK and can't do it themselves (TBH, I don't know if the utility for reading G/E series data was added to the BK7m/5/3 OS or not), feel free to contact me or any other member with a BK-9 and we can do it for you...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: aviro

Performance List compatibility 10 Jul 2017 00:41 #6072

  • aviro
  • aviro's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 116
  • Thank you received: 31
  • Karma: 0
that is a interesting tool on the bk-9
Look like it's not a really difficult conversion the bk-9 is doing
it would be nice if we have a software-tool/app witch can do the same!!
I came from the G-1000 to the VA76 and have had a mega performance set build-up
The va-76 also had a MA-list and include the tool to ad a ups to the MA-list..... is that the same thing the BK-9 do?
Is the MA-list not the same thing (format) as the BK7/5/3 performance-list ????

To me It's not about the sounds and style's i now there are different on every model.. but the combi of sounds and styles /settings ,tricks ect i used for live-play(gigs)
i like to see back! (yes i stored al the data from my zipdisk's/floppy- from e86/g-800//g-1000/VA-76/GW8 include all rom style's ect)
I hate that the bk-7m not show me the style-name the link from a performance in-case of the style is not found!

To say ...if there is a change that i could convert a VA-76 MA-list or UPG to (partly)work on my Bk-7m it will save me a lot of time! :woohoo:
Last Edit: 10 Jul 2017 00:44 by aviro.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Performance List compatibility 10 Jul 2017 01:06 #6073

  • Diki
  • Diki's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1871
  • Thank you received: 394
  • Karma: 29
I don't remember any tools to help with migration from the V/VA series to the G/E series, which would be what you needed to do to go from VA76 to BK series. But then again, I went from the G1000 to the G70 in one jump (I'm not a big fan of changing arrangers until one comes out that is utterly superior, which I felt the G70 was), so I don't know for sure. I don't remember anything, but could be wrong.

The problem with UPS compatibility comes from many factors, not just Tone and Kit and Style compatibility...

TBH, I think that if you have the original style backed up in a Performance, that's all you need. The BEST a conversion tool can do is point to the same sounds and kits if it can. And, if that is successful, well, you really sound the same you did before spending several thousands of dollars on a new arranger! This is one of the reasons I tend to wait so long. I'm not going to spend a fortune and waste a ton of time converting a songlist over to a new arranger if I end up sounding like I hadn't!

But wait two or three generations of arranger series, and the kits get so much more dynamic, the sounds so much more realistic, it becomes a no brainer to convert. But when you do, your ENTIRE library needs work to use the new sounds and features, or you just wasted your money! The Makeup Tools have allowed us easy access to not only substitute better sounds, but also to substitute drum sounds INSIDE a kit for less dynamic ones from the G1000 years. Plus we now have 3 MFX to insert on style/song Parts, and separate EQ for every Part in the arranger.

So yes, a ton of work! But the end result is you go out sounding like a new band, not go out sounding pretty close to exactly the same despite having dropped a few thousand on a new arranger!

BTW... the BK will show you the style used... If it is a ROM style, the Family light will light up and pressing the family will jump directly to the style used. If it is a User Style, the USB light is on. Yes, after that, you are going to have to remember WHERE your style is... This is why I use a system where, for every User Style or Song I use, I copy it out of whatever folder it is tucked away in, and drop it at the root level of either the Styles or SMF's (Rhythms or Songs in BK-speak) folder, and make SURE the Performance points to THAT copy. That way, all I have to do is scroll through the root level of the folder, which, as long as you keep ONLY styles or SMF's that you actually use in Performances at the root level, and don't spam it it with thousands of style/songs you are merely auditioning (keep them in separate folders so they don't get mixed in), shouldn't take too long to find the name of the style in the List...

The bottom line for me is, if it's worth moving to a new arranger, it is worth redoing EVERYTHING. Or, why bother? B)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Performance List compatibility 10 Jul 2017 01:10 #6074

  • Diki
  • Diki's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1871
  • Thank you received: 394
  • Karma: 29
BTW, it pays to NEVER sell an old arranger until you have done ALL the work converting to the new one..!

You always need a reference to how you prepared the old one to give you a leg up on getting the new one ready.

I usually try to hang on to the old one for at least six months or more, so I can compare old to new and make sure I'm not fooling myself whether it sounds better or not! :evil:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Performance List compatibility 10 Jul 2017 01:10 #6075

  • aviro
  • aviro's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Premium Member
  • Posts: 116
  • Thank you received: 31
  • Karma: 0
The bk-7m ,bk-5 and bk-3 performance-list are compatibilty!
Only to remember that the Bk7-m has a 999 performans entry list and the bk-5,bk3 only can go up 499 entry's
the other differences you can face is the BK-7m has more MFX-banks and a much more powerfull sound engine (it has a few SN sounds onboard!!)

Another thing... the bk's (not bk-9) are mostly indentical with the E80/G70 One thouch settings and so a UPS from these models shouldbe compatible if conversion can be made to a performance list by the BK-9 tool if i understand Dikki's BK-9 tool correct!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Performance List compatibility 10 Jul 2017 05:50 #6076

  • Diki
  • Diki's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1871
  • Thank you received: 394
  • Karma: 29
TBH, I never tried the G70 Performance converter out. As I said, there's enough differences between the G70 and BK-9 (for starters, 3UPR/2LWR/MBS vs 2UPR/1LWR/MBS) that conversion of the Performance was moot.

Plus, don't forget, OTS are stored in the STYLE, not in the Performance. Conversion of a UPS and its UPG's into a BK UPS file won't do a thing to whether OTS work or not.

I have not heard of any difference between the 999 entry Performance List for any of the BK series. Where did you read this? The BK-5 manual states quite definitively on p.48 it has a 999 entry Performance List. Please check your facts before posting, Aviro! That's two things completely wrong... :ohmy:
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Moderators: Admin, Diki
Powered by Kunena Forum