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TOPIC: Roland BK9

Roland BK9 01 May 2017 17:43 #5869

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hello
search style kizomba....
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Roland BK9 05 May 2017 03:53 #5883

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Is there one for any other type of arranger? You might be able to get it converted to Roland format.

Or is there an SMF of any song in Kizomba style available? You might be able to create a style from sections of it with some sequencer editing...

Other than that, I think it looks like this is the perfect time for you to try your hand at creating a style in the Style Composer. :(
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Roland BK9 05 May 2017 18:12 #5885

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Thanks to the answer you are perfectly right to try, even though I see it hard I did not even succeed with the roland G1000
thank you
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Roland BK9 05 May 2017 20:00 #5887

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The style composer in the BK-9 is far better than the one in the G1000.

What is also a good idea is to look for guitar patterns, bass patterns, percussion patterns in other styles that might work in the kizomba. You can 'assemble' a style out of other Parts in other styles, so maybe you don't need to do ALL the work yourself. Pick the style already closest, then concentrate on replacing only the elements that DON'T work...

Get it 75% of the way by assembling 'bits', then fine tune, edit and create the missing elements. It will give the style a more professional sheen.
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Roland BK9 06 May 2017 15:16 #5888

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Is that I do not have much time to rebuild the style if it was already done would be better there are no sites where to buy style for bk9, and according to you with the app for ipad it would be easier to edit style sounds etc.ecc.
thanks bye
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Roland BK9 07 May 2017 19:18 #5889

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There is no iPad app for the Style Composer section...

With today's rampant piracy, there really isn't much upside for professional style creators to spend a bunch of time making niche music styles. Let's face it, if one had, you'd be perfectly happy if someone who had it sent it to you (I'm guessing that was the reason for the post in the first place!).

This, in a nutshell, explains why it is hard to find new professional styles until a new arranger comes out... The manufacturer defrays the cost of getting the style made by professional style creators with the profit from selling the new arranger. New sounds and kits, and sometimes new arranger features make the style either not play at all in earlier arrangers, or not sound as good. This incentivizes you to go out and buy the new arranger, rather than being able to simply buy a new style.

I'm afraid that, if you want new styles in new trendy rhythms, it is going to be important to FIND THE TIME to master the Style Composer. :evil:
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Roland BK9 07 May 2017 19:31 #5890

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You are right and I've found a style that might look like LATIN section style is the latin capital, what do you think? I try to modify this
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Roland BK9 07 May 2017 20:16 #5892

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Exactly...

Find the style that is closest already, and work from there.

From listening to a few Kizombas, it seems that there's quite an electronic element to the sound, as well. Bit of a cross between Latin and Dance/EDM style. So, once you have found a Latin style that gets you close, go and listen to some of the newer Disco/Dance styles, and see if some of the Parts in the Dance styles would match up decently with the barebones Latin rhythm.

Even without major editing or creating from scratch, it is surprising how much fun you can have taking bits from here, bits from there, and 'assembling' it into a style that sounds utterly original... B)
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Roland BK9 07 May 2017 20:59 #5893

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BTW, here's a little tip when auditioning Parts to assemble...

Put the Tempo Lock on and make a short Chord Sequence with both major and minor chords in it so that you can concentrate on listening, not playing. Now switch back and forth between your base rhythm Latin style and any other styles you want to audition Parts from on the fly.

This will make it easier to envision whether the Part will fit the destination style or not, or how close it gets. You will get a good feel for the groove of the basic rhythm while you play the original, then it is easy to spot if there are changes to the swing factor or groove (which may be hard to edit out) as you jump to the new style.
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Roland BK9 07 May 2017 21:24 #5894

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Last quick tip... (maybe!)

Remember to try the Makeup Tools WHILE you are auditioning these parts to assemble. A distorted rock guitar Part can sound utterly different if you give it a pad sound, or a synth lead sound. A bassline that doesn't work with an acoustic bass might be perfect if it is a synth bass. A drum track on an acoustic kit might be wrong, but might be perfect using 808 sounds. Percussion might be different and cooler if using different percussion layouts.

I tried out the Latin Capitol style, and changed the kit to Techno, the bass to Alpha SynBs, organ to D-50 Organ, etc., and ended up with something a long way from the original! Now imagine that, but with Parts from other styles as well (or rather, because you only get the 6 ACC Parts, instead!)....

There used to be a Roland feature called Cover Tools, which did an entire style re-voice to a different set of sounds in one go. It was amazing how cool some styles got when changed from acoustic to electronic, or vice versa. Sadly, no longer on the latest Roland's (I guess because it got harder to standardize setups, who knows?!) but basically, doing it by hand this way is the same thing. Just slower, but at least you have full control at each step...

The ROM styles are just the stepping off point for a huge increase in your style collection simply by radically changing the sounds, and then assembling different Parts from different styles into what I call 'Frankenstyles'! B)
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Roland BK9 08 May 2017 18:52 #5898

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ahahah Frankenstyle very good ahahahah thank fro info bye
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Roland BK9 14 May 2017 20:29 #5903

My first work on Roland BK-9 (2000$) >>> soundcloud.com/stanislav-fx/its-my-life-1


My first work on Roland FA-08 (1700$) >>> soundcloud.com/stanislav-fx/stanislav-fx-absolut-e4-analog-320

Where is the sound better?
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Roland BK9 15 May 2017 06:21 #5904

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Kind of hard to compare the two. Two utterly different musical pieces, two utterly different genres of music, two utterly different types of lead sounds.

I would generally say that if you are doing EDM, electronica, trance, that sort of thing, a synth based WS is going to be the best weapon of choice. Or, if the truth be told, a DAW and some TOTL VSTi's is the REAL weapon of choice!

But anything acoustic, and more classic rock/jazz/pop than EDM, most of the time if the right style is in it, the arranger is the better solution. But your chops have got to be spot on if you are emulating acoustic instruments. Synth sounds, there ARE no 'wrong' licks. But real instrument emulation is a minefield of things you should NOT play, ever!

And the hardest of them all is solid acoustic guitar emulation. Unless you play a guitar, it is hard for a keyboard player to realize when you are stepping outside of what the instrument can do, let alone what a skilled player would play!

All in all, I'd definitely have to say the FA-08 piece sounds more polished, better balanced. But, to be fair (and don't take this badly, you did very well!) I think that the BK-9 piece could have sounded better with some more idiomatic guitar leads, and a bit of balancing with the style.

Maybe the FA-08 out of the box is voiced better for that style of music, but I really feel that the BK-9 can match it if played well (if trying acoustic instrument emulation). The truth is, I doubt the FA-08 would have sounded significantly better if you had tried to do the BK-9 piece on it.

The debate of 'arranger vs. WS' has raged for decades. And, in the end, the answer is always the same. Each is good at doing what it does best. And no arranger OR WS has ever been as good at the other thing as a real one! There's more crossover nowadays than ever, but I would still never pick an arranger to do EDM, arp or loop based stuff, modern music, etc.. And I would never pick a WS to do a real arranger's job, either..! :evil:
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Roland BK9 16 May 2017 20:18 #5908

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It's up here in a couple of other places, but here's a link to something I did which, although not perfect, shows how well the BK-9 can do acoustic guitars...

soundcloud.com/destinkeysuser688180390/bk-9-sn-acguit-jam
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Roland BK9 17 May 2017 23:17 #5920

Of course, BK-9 is a convenient and resonant tool! Quick and easy to understand
But the sounds in FA-08 are much better, better and more modern! + Built-in synthesizer!
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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 02:33 #5921

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Diki wrote:
Kind of hard to compare the two. Two utterly different musical pieces, two utterly different genres of music, two utterly different types of lead sounds.

I agree..... ;)
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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 04:10 #5922

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Stanislav_FX wrote:
Of course, BK-9 is a convenient and resonant tool! Quick and easy to understand
But the sounds in FA-08 are much better, better and more modern! + Built-in synthesizer!

I'd like to hear a no frills comparison between sounds...

There is no proper 'synth' in a BK-9, so duh! Of course the synth sounds are better, and more modern..! But I'd like to hear the saxes compared, the acoustic guitars compared, the raw piano sounds.

Truth is, you are comparing a car to a boat. Car ain't designed to go on water, boat ain't designed to go on land. Take either one out of its comfort zone, you got a disaster on your hands. But use each of them for what it is designed to do, you got yourself a good time.

Sure, in the studio (what you appear to have as your focus), the arranger sometimes comes up short, especially at modern, synth and loop/arp based stuff. But try doing a gig on an FA..! Where's the lyrics display, where's the chart display, where's the interactivity and freedom to move around, change styles, sounds, genres lightning quick? Where's the hundreds of jazz styles, or oldies pop styles? Sure, prepare 100% of your show up in advance, and stick to it like glue, damn near any keyboard can come through. But the whole POINT of an arranger is the freedom to quickly do something at the drop of a hat, and it sound professional and polished.

That's not really the design philosophy of workstations...
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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 11:11 #5923

FA-06/08 has on board rhythmic patterns and arpeggiator.
Splitting the keyboard into many parts.





Another workstation, but with much more automation and style functions. I recently acquired it for review .. She, it will be able to replace the interactive orange. It has more flexible arpeggiator functions of 8000 kinds.
FA-06/08 has them much less.

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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 15:52 #5925

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But you really don't see WS's used the way we do arrangers.

The truth is, although there's more overlap than ever between WS's and arrangers, due to the chord following, WS's still come up woefully short as useful live gigging tools.

For starters, they only have a tiny fraction of the content of an arranger. For all but EDM, they are basically useless on a gig. You have a FEW jazz arps and loops, but an arranger has dozens and dozens of completely different jazz styles. Same with Latin, same with rock, same with country, same with worship and gospel etc., etc.. So best of luck putting an entire show together, let alone a few hundred, different songs to pull from.

Next, the fills... Yes, music other than modern loop based stuff has fills. :evil: An arranger can drop into a fill at any point in the bar, or the phrase. Loop/arp workstations, you have to call one up a bar in advance... how 80's!

Next, bass inversions (or 'slash' chords). I haven't seen a WS do that trick yet. Chord recognition is vastly superior on arrangers. I guess, modern music has abandoned most complex chords, but anything from a few decades back, you are going to need augmented, diminished, 7b10's, all kinds of things the WS simply cannot do.

I have tried out everything the WS has to offer. Korg's Karma synths, Motif's, FA's, you name it. Not one of them is even a passable substitute for an arranger, once again with the exception of modern dance and synth based stuff. It's what they are designed to do!

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not putting them down. I use Korg and Kurzweil WS's at home and in the studio, and if I get a call to do a modern music gig, that's what I'll use... In the studio, I feel VSTi's are usually the better sounding and more capable solution.

But for the traditional role an arranger plays, IMHO no WS has yet to come even close to the versatility and ease of use of an arranger. And when it comes to included content, for all but EDM, a WS is a joke. :whistle:
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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 16:19 #5926

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Lastly, I believe a lot of the perceived superiority of WS for dance music comes from the content creators. If the same people, or other style creators, created styles for arrangers rather than JUST for WS's, I think most people would think very differently...

Here is an expansion pack of styles for a Yamaha arranger that focuses on EDM. If you didn't know it was an arranger, you'd easily think it was a WS.



As to synth sounds, although not a full modeling analog synth, it is quite possible to get VERY close with the thousands of synth sounds in a BK. Add a fader and button controller, and you can get to most of the parameters that are needed for EDM, like filter resonance and cutoff, MFX control for stutter effects and the like. In fact, if you have the BK-9, there are three sliders dedicated to voice control and two sliders dedicated to MFX parameters. All storable per Performance. That's quite a bit of control....

There are a ton of interesting drum sounds, from 808, 909 and beyond, a plethora of electronic percussion noises, bleeps and burbles, and the pad section has some EXTREMELY complex evolving pads, some of which lock to clock. I really feel that a dance music producer has a ton of stuff to work with.

But the arranger's focus on more traditional musics has left it with a demographic of generally older users, so little effort is made by the manufacturer to address a music style likely to be underused, compared to oldies or Latin! I have often thought that arrangers need to be sold and demonstrated with completely different ROM content. It is hard to persuade a 20's kid to buy something that has any Bossa Nova content, or polkas! And conversely, tough to sell a keyboard to granny that is full of EDM!

But the machine is equally capable of both.... I floated the idea a few years ago that manufacturers should have switchable ROM styles, grouped into Modern and Classic. Hit the 'Modern' button, and ALL the styles other than modern disappear (you can still load back in what you want later), and a kid trying it out doesn't have the horror of wading through dozens of Ballroom styles or Polkas, etc.!

And conversely, granny trying it out doesn't have to get a heart attack accidentally hitting a 160bpm EDM style!

I honestly think it isn't the tool... it is the CONTENT. With well written modem music styles, I'll happily put my BK-9 up against most WS's. And, as with most things musical, in the end, it comes down to the player. Granny on your WS is going to suck! No matter the tool, the fingers playing it are still 90% of the success or failure.
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Roland BK9 18 May 2017 21:34 #5929

I understand all the differences perfectly.
But judging by the tone edition, the BK-9 is very weak in this regard in comparison with the FA, which has a very wide function.
And the very sound of any arranger, Yamaha or Korg .. immediately distinguishable. And it sounds cheaper.
But I will say that BK-9 sounds better, more pleasant than arrangers from Кorg or Yamaha.
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Roland BK9 19 May 2017 00:10 #5932

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No offense, but that guitar piece on the FA-08 is abominable compared to the BK-9. And the piano? It sounded like a Sound Canvas. The piano in the BK-9 blows that one away (no idea if it's the main one, but if it is, yuck! :sick: )

Come on, gauntlet thrown...

Do a piece on the FA-08 of jazz or Latin, or basically anything acoustic, not dance music or EDM.

I'll listen to it and do something similar on the BK-9.

Then we'll offer them up for voting. :woohoo:

If you aren't happy with the sound of the BK-9, I feel it is more on you that the keyboard. Yes, I agree that out of the box, the FA-08 sounds fuller. But trust me, if you know your stuff, and are willing to spend a bit of time polishing the BK-9's sound up, customizing the style balances, Makeup Tooling the sounds, adding MFX to style sounds (maybe you haven't noticed, but NONE of the ROM styles or any legacy styles have any MFX on them at all... that gives you three to play around with on different Parts), I am convinced that, apart from the arp/loop stuff already in the FA (and using Key Audio, I can add that stuff in in sync with the style if I have the loop library) I can match and probably better anything short of the synth sounds...

I KNOW I can beat that appalling guitar demo! I just posted something on the 'Guitar noodle' thread that I think is tough to beat with an FA-08...

Game on! B)
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Roland BK9 19 May 2017 22:43 #5933

Ok, Diki!
Immediately I say, I do not play jazz ... the same way, my technique is very weak ...
I'm a simple lover ..))
I propose an excerpt from my author's work
Expromt (prelude)_demo >>>> soundcloud.com/stanislav-fx/expromt-part1_demo

And also 2 midi files, which are simply sent through the devices.
You're through BK-9. Well, I, through the FA.

Zodiak >>> yadi.sk/d/Ua_QNQ3I3JLiWf
original 1981

Space >>> yadi.sk/d/6UdQ-uHK3HzLCy
original 1979
Last Edit: 19 May 2017 22:47 by Stanislav_FX.
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Roland BK9 20 May 2017 09:13 #5935

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OK... You'll have to give me a bit of time to do this, this is just coming into a big holiday week in the USA and I'm booked 6+ gigs a week or more at the moment!

But I'll try to get cracking as fast as I can...

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not putting down WS's... I still love my K2500S (there are still some things that old thing can do nothing else has yet touched) and my Korg WS. What they do best, no arranger can match. But I guarantee one thing. Come up to me on a gig and ask for a song, I'll probably be able to find a style and a good few sounds and do it on the spot (if I know the song!).

Try that on a WS...

Arps and loops are cool. I've asking for years for some of these things to be added to arrangers. But go out and gig with a WS, and you quickly find that they simply aren't set up right for impromptu playing. They are great if you have the time and patience to set it all up in advance. But, as I said, I've played most everything out there, Kronos's, FA's, Jupiter's, Motif's (haven't seen a Montage yet), Kurzweil's, that's most of the major players there, isn't it?

I wouldn't go and do a solo gig on any of them unless I had weeks to set everything up in advance, and even then, I'd worry about requests...

That's what arrangers are designed for! B)
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Roland BK9 20 May 2017 09:19 #5936

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BTW, I'm not that comfortable downloading stuff from unknown Russian sites, so would you mind posting the SMF's here? I believe the site can host .MID files...

Incidentally, did you check out my BK-9 guitar piece yet? www.roland-arranger.com/index.php/forum-...dle-on-the-bk-9#5930
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Roland BK9 20 May 2017 18:57 #5938

Of course, I listened to everything ... Aranjus.
As for the midi ... Zodiak >>>

File Attachment:

File Name: Zodiak-provincialnoe_disko__remake_.mid
File Size: 38 KB



Space >>>

File Attachment:

File Name: blue_tears3.mid
File Size: 63 KB



Originals on YouTube (Is there no problem with Youtube?)
I do not need haste ... I have too, not much free time, + laziness))

I took out the BK-9, its possibilities ...
As a tool for a live game - very wonderful!
But the editors of sound, tone ... noticeably inferior to FA!
In the BC-9 22 SN, in the FA - 2000 SN! + 24 BIT for recording! Built-in sound card and much more! But I Love BK-9 more than AKP and PA - for its simplicity and Beauty of Sound and Organ!
Last Edit: 20 May 2017 19:03 by Stanislav_FX.
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