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TOPIC: Audio Styles in E-A7

Audio Styles in E-A7 26 Jun 2016 19:54 #4510

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i recently bought Roland E-A7 and wondering how to use audio style sync with style. is there any way for doing that? i appreciate any idea/advice. Thanks
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Audio Styles in E-A7 28 Jun 2016 15:47 #4515

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hello guys i hope you share some ideas
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Audio Styles in E-A7 28 Jun 2016 21:45 #4516

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Can you be a bit more specific about what you want to try and do?

One thing you CANNOT do is have an audio track follow your chords. So forget about trying to get a poor man's Audya. :evil:

Without this, unless you are trying to get audio synced up for ONE specific song (that you MUST perform correctly to go along with the track's chord changes), most of the 'audio with a style' functionality is best left to drum and percussion tracks (that don't need to follow chords).

So... what did you have in mind to try and do?
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Audio Styles in E-A7 30 Jun 2016 15:28 #4524

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thanks so much Diki. i actually got a plenty of audio styles from a friend of mine (only drums and percussion,no accompanied music) and looking in the manual to see if there is a way to play these audio files along with the keyboards styles, like a loop function which is already there., but i found nothing unfortunately. Or it would be great if possible to convert them to smf style so that i can use the samples of their drum inst.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 30 Jun 2016 19:33 #4525

  • Vladimir B
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What exactly do you call "audio styles", what are they?
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Audio Styles in E-A7 01 Jul 2016 04:04 #4528

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Audio styles generally mean a style where one or more of the Parts are done with audio tracks, not MIDI data. If you think of Yamaha's Audio Styles, or Ketron SD-1 styles, instead of a MIDI drum track they have recordings of real drummers and percussionists playing the drum groove. This is looped to the same length as the rest of the Parts. There are also fills, Intros, Endings etc..

Orasikh, if you already have a bunch or drumming loops set up to make styles (four Variations, four fills, maybe an Intro and an Ending), you can import the .WAV's into the E-A7's sampler, create a User Tone, then use that User Tone in a Style. Obviously, without owning an E-A7 I can't really give you too much in the way of specifics, but that is the general idea. You can also use percussion loops to make Multipads, which is great for bringing an element in and out of the mix as you play.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but if I were you, I'd read up VERY carefully about how to create User Tones using the sampler, and how to incorporate those Tones into the Style engine. And how to import audio for the multipads.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 01 Jul 2016 04:09 #4529

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BTW, the task of converting audio loops into MIDI is still quite difficult to achieve. Single note stuff is not too bad, there are computer programs that can convert say a sung line or something like a flute or a trumpet's performance into MIDI, but something that will take a whole mix of percussion and drums, etc. and figure out who played what, I'm afraid that isn't quite here yet.

There are a few things that make an effort, but IMHO, they are still in their infancy. Melodyne, for instance...

Polyphonic transcription is a VERY difficult task, we may be quite a while waiting for it. :dry:
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Audio Styles in E-A7 01 Jul 2016 13:27 #4532

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Diki, I know what Yamaha and Ketron audio styles are, but it seems like the topic author has simply some drum loops in wav format which he calls "audio styles", hence the confusion.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 01 Jul 2016 21:24 #4535

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Well, the OP already answered what he had... No pitched stuff, so it seems he has some style audio loops (they could have come from a variety of sources, including perhaps the Band in a Box audio style data, or, going by his name, some Indian/Pakistani loops).

As far as I can tell (haven't even seen an E-A7!), the way to use these in a style is to load them into the sampler, and use the Tones in styles instead of a MIDI Part. You'd have to set up the Drum Part to be non-transposing, of course, but it seems doable, as well as using audio loops in the multipad section.

In fairness, all Yamaha's (and early Ketron SD-1) audio styles are are basically the same thing, simply with the user taken out of the picture. It's a definite advantage that Roland allow you your OWN loops, whereas Yamaha's are strictly ROM only (and there's only 40 of them in an S970).

The whole thing is confusing, as only Audya's have audio loops for more than drums, yet Yamaha use the term despite a more accurate term being 'Audio drum styles' :evil:
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 01:49 #4538

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Thanks Diki. actually the audio styles that i they are audio drums loop in wave format. As you advised, i will try to load them through the sampler as a tone to style creation section and see if that works. Regarding loading them in multipad section, according to the Manual, audio loops doesn't sync with tempo but i will try your advice and let you know. i wish i could get a solution from someone who owns EA7 and tried this. Thanks Vladimir for your comments.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 08:44 #4541

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Have you looked into something like Propellerheads' ReCycle? This program will take an audio drum loop, slice it into each individual hit, map them to different notes, and create a MIDI file that plays back the slices precisely the same.

If you are trying to create an audio drum style that can be used at a variety of tempi, you'll need to do this as it doesn't appear that the E-A7 can do realtime tempo changing (if what you say is correct). I wasn't aware of this shortcoming, because the BK series can take an audio file and use it as a loop with a style, and the loop is automatically time-stretched to fit any tempo (withing reason).

This seems a strange omission, given that it works well with the BK-9 and would be the obvious way to use audio loops in the multipads...

Can any E-A7 owner please confirm that this can't be done?
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 13:37 #4543

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thank you Diki. Me and my friend already tried to do this work with ReCycle in which we have no enough experience, We actually couldn't copy the loop events to the SMF, maybe these wave loops are for a percussive instrument and not a drums, Also we tried to import Midi drum to use in style section just for knowing this part of the process in case we succeeded in implementing this idea in near future, but the mission was unsuccessful and no related info found in the Manual. I really appreciate any help from you or the other members.

I am not sure why Roland is restricting time stretching of audio loops in Style engine and Multipads while allowing it for mp3/wave songs which is absolutely not important than style section. As you mentioned, it works well with the Bk9. but, why not with EA7 which it would have saved lots of time and efforts.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 16:11 #4544

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Does E-A7 allow to create a custom drum kit (or may be user patch with multiple samples across the keys) using your samples? If yes, you can slice the loop in any audio editor (not necessarily Recycle) and load all chunks into E-A7 as a separate samples. Then you can re-create the groove manually creating new style. It seems like a lot of work, but in fact it's not, if the loop is 1 or 2 measure long.
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Last Edit: 02 Jul 2016 16:19 by Vladimir B.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 16:49 #4545

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Thanks Vladimir. Yes it does allow creating custom drum kit. but my idea is i would like to use those wave percussion loops with the style accompaniment because they have been created by a professional percussionist and to record exactly the same manually takes a lot of time specially i'm busy most of the time at work and practicing music only at weekends.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 17:27 #4546

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I think one of the issues may be that the BK series (and the BK-9 with respect to audio loops) only timestretch ONE loop at a time. In fact, the entire audio engine is only capable of one audio function. You can't, for instance record a .WAV if an MP3 is playing the backing. And the BK-9's Key Audio feature can only play ONE loop at a time... you can't, for instance, layer two loops together.

This is obviously a CPU horsepower issue. It takes a fair bit of computing power to live time or pitch shift an audio file (even more for an MP3 rather than a .WAV file), and it seems that there isn't enough CPU to spare to run the entire arranger, figure out the sample-switching for the SN voices and pitch and timestretch a bunch of audio loops all at the same time.

On a low priced arranger, perhaps not unsurprising... I don't think I know of any other budget arranger that can do this. In fact, I'm not really sure I know of any arranger at all that can do this! :evil:

Orasikh, I think if I were you and wanted to do this with the E-A7, I would stick with ReCycle. It doesn't matter if a loop is percussion or drums, it's all pretty much the same to ReCycle. The issue will be saving the SMF which plays all the slices, then import it to the Style Creator, and either import the .WAV slices one by one to the sampler, and recreate the map, or possibly look into whether ReCycle can save the multisample as a Roland sampler format. I believe (but I'm not 100% sure) that the E-A7 is supposed to be able to read old Roland sampler format. If ReCycle can save all the slices in the correct order on the correct notes and the E-A7 import that, then it's simply a case of importing the SMF to the style creator to use on the Drumkit that you create using the .WAV data.

Of course, none of this is going to be easy, but I still think it may be doable. If you and your friend are having issues at the moment, perhaps try to network around (try Propellerhead's user forum) and see if anyone more experienced can help you. But, bottom line, unless you can find a way to read some multisample format from ReCycle, you have a mountain of work loading the dozens of individual slices into a User Kit in the correct places for the MIDI file to play it correctly.

Here's a little tip though... Recycle timestretches the end of each slice to be able to play it slower (if you slow down an unstretched sample, there is a little gap between each slice - ReCycle gets round this by stretching the tail end of the sample so there is no gap) so slow down the loop BEFORE you export the slices and they should have this extra tail added on. It won't affect the sound of the loop much if sped up from normal, but it will help quite a bit if you want to use the loop at a slower than nominal tempo.

I'm afraid you have chosen to bite off quite a complex task here, but stick with it, ask around and see if you can't find someone that has already done this (even if it's on another sampler) that can help you, and I'm sure you can do it. B)
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 18:12 #4547

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Many thanks Diki. i will work on your advice and let you know the outcome.

Looking forward to see more comments from owner of this create arranger in this regard and over all capabilities/functions.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 19:01 #4548

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Just out of curiosity, it would be interesting to hear how your percussion loops sound. Could you please upload some example here?
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 22:13 #4549

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File Attachment:

File Name: 152rombagroub1.mp3
File Size: 81 KB

i am trying to upload the file. but i cant see the file i uploaded. can you please advise.
Last Edit: 02 Jul 2016 22:24 by orasikh65.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 02 Jul 2016 22:25 #4550

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finally successfully uploaded. i converted to mp3.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 03 Jul 2016 07:56 #4553

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I can see some issues with that MP3 straight away... is this how your friend delivered the loops to you?

Open it up in an audio editor. You can see straight away there is a little bit of silence at the start of the loop. This is not good news. Yes, the loop plays in tempo pretty well, but the start time is not the beginning of the loop. This means that the loop will sound 'late' if it is triggered on the 'one', you would have to trigger it early to get it to run in time.

If they are all like this, you have a fair bit of work cutting the silence from the start of the loop, and pasting it to the end of the loop (if you just cut it, the loop will not loop in time). Trimming loops to start exactly on time is paramount in being able to use them in sync with other elements that DO start on the 'one'.

Secondly, this loop is VERY low level. To get the best quality, and to avoid a bunch of pain using it (you would have to find some way to boost it in the voice programming), it would be advisable to either 'normalize' all the loops, or at least boost all loops in a similar family by the same amount (so inter-loop dynamics are preserved).

Hopefully, the rest aren't as bad, but this one definitely has serious issues with how it is trimmed and looped. Yes, play it by itself, it sounds fine. But because of the little bit of silence at the beginning, it simply won't sound in sync with MIDI data or other loops that are better trimmed.
Attachments:
Last Edit: 03 Jul 2016 08:03 by Diki.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 03 Jul 2016 13:27 #4555

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Thanks Diki for your observations. yes i realised those issues the first time i listen to them but only few needs these adjustments. these kind of issues are just a piece of cake as i have don't it so many times and it doesn't take long by the way, only my worries now is to convert theses files to work with the EA7.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 04 Jul 2016 18:48 #4559

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I would concentrate on learning about making User Drumkits using the sampler. You can import .WAV data to the sampler directly, so each loop could be used as a single element on each note of the kit (you'll need it to be a drum kit because you don't want it to transpose for different chords).

TBH, as long as you only want to use the loop at the tempo it comes at, you really don't need to do the time-slicing thing. As long as your loop and the style are at the same tempo, it should work fine. But you ARE going to have to get to grips with ReCycle (or some other slicer program) and then importing all the slices to the sampler, assembling a kit, and importing the ReCycle SMF to play them correctly if you want to be able to use the loop at any tempo...

But here's an idea for you... If you are prepared to simply use the loop at two or three different preset tempos, there's nothing to stop you using a timestretch program to change say a 150bpm loop to a 130bpm loop, then replacing the original loop with the new one and save the style at the new tempo. Obviously, not as useful as a loop that runs at any tempo, but better than one that only runs at its original tempo! And a LOT less work! B)
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Audio Styles in E-A7 05 Jul 2016 19:06 #4564

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Thanks Diki for the suggestion and idea. i prefer the idea of slicing the wave and use them as drum kit and import SMF to play them because i need to change the tempo in some songs using the same style . i appreciate if you can tell me how i can import SMF to style creation section, i tried this twice but didn't work. this will really save me time going through the manual.
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Audio Styles in E-A7 07 Jul 2016 23:40 #4644

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I don't have an E-A7.

But here's what I gather from reading the manuals (And so should you! I am not here to help you not read them!) :evil:

For starters, yes, you are right. There's no direct way to import an SMF to the style engine. It gets a bit complicated here, but you will need to download Roland's Style Converter software (PC only) which converts SMF's into styles. You can then transfer that data to play the slices from one style (the style you created using the software with just the ReCycle SMF in it) to the style you are working on by using Copy Track (p.44 in the Reference Manual). Point that track data at the User Kit you created from the slices, and if all is done correctly, it SHOULD play back the slices.

However, since you are working with the Style Converter software (you ARE going to have to read that one's manual too! :S ) you might want to also work on the basic Style Parts for the other sounds in there in a DAW like Cubase or Sonor, and make up the needed SMF for all the parts there. I find working with things like Cubase FAR more visual and easier to edit on than the tiny screens keyboards have (even the bigger ones like Kronos). But that is optional, your decision. But it kind of makes sense that, if you are using that software to get the drum slice data in, you might as well go ahead and do the other Parts in there, and enjoy a big screen and far easier editing... B)

The main thing you need to do, to start, I think, is try to walk before you run. Working with these kinds of softwares, working with creating your own styles is very much like learning to play music. You don't start out trying to play Rhapsody in Blue! You start with Mary had a Little Lamb... ;) So, don't let your first attempts be to create an entire, fully formed, professional quality style. Practice each part of the process separately, on very simple material. Walk, then run! You will have a far better understanding of the process and the workflow by doing this, and avoid burnout and disappointment and discouragement if you try to bite off more than you can chew to start with.

And... sorry to be the bearer of bad news but.... READ THE DAMN MANUALS! :woohoo:

I can try to help, but in the end, it's either you doing this or no-one. I assume no-one doing it is not an option, so... It's up to you, Orasikh. You either roll up your sleeves, crack the manuals, and work methodically towards achieving this, or it is unlikely to ever get done. It doesn't look like there's a huge number of people doing this yet, and I doubt there ever will be, and I certainly have no confidence that Roland will ever get off their fat behinds and do it for you. So, it seems to be down to YOU. How much do you want it?

Enough to read the manuals? :dry:
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