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TOPIC: List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers...

List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 02 May 2015 16:36 #2063

  • Diki
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This thread is for us to post information about which USB sticks work well, which don't work at all, and any that are slow or unreliable.

Please detail the make and exact model number, along with the capacity when making a report. And please tell us which BK model you are using it in.

Thanks...
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 02 May 2015 17:46 #2064

  • Diki
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I use one of these in my BK-9 with no issues... PNY Attaché 64GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive - P-FD64GATT03-GE

www.amazon.com/PNY-Attach%C3%A9-64GB-Flash-Drive/dp/B0063GKG6I


I also have one of these: SanDisk Cruzer Fit 4GB USB 2.0 Low-Profile Flash Drive- SDCZ33-004G-B35 www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Low-Profil...4G-B35/dp/B005FYNSPK for my BK-7m, no issues so far (works in the -7m and my -9). Highly recommended (available up to 64GB, but not tested in larger sizes yet) as it fits in the BK-7m without projecting beyond the case, so you can pack away the BK-7m or move it around without worrying about bumping the stick. Bit tricky to remove (use some needle nose pliers, or something like that) but that is more than worthwhile to ensure it doesn't get damaged in transit.

All sticks formatted in the BK to start with.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 03 May 2015 20:31 #2087

  • bigalminal
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Will the BK 9 read USB 3?
Al.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 03 May 2015 22:52 #2088

  • marko
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I don't think that BK-9 or whatever BK reads USB 3 for several reasons :

- maximum speed needed to read /write USB is for recording and high speed on USB 2 works very well on all BK
- USB 3 key needs a new driver for Roland's motherboard and it costs money to develop such a driver
- USB 3 doesn't improve work on BK.
- On user manual you can read " .....write on Use USB memory sold by Roland (M-UF-series)" and USB M-UF series is a high speed USB 2 (see Roland m-UF USB

But USB 3 can be used as USB 2 interface. By example I try lexar S73 - USB 3.0 -8Gb and it works very well on BK-7M. but I don't try it on BK-9.

Marko
Yamaha TYROS 5 - Roland BK-7M - Ketron MIDJAY+ - Yamaha DGX 220

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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 03 May 2015 23:53 #2093

  • Diki
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USB is generally backwards compatible... You won't get USB3 speeds on a USB2 device, but usually there is no issue with it being read.

The problem is forward compatibility... You may run into issues using slow, old USB1 sticks in a device (like the BK series) that expects USB2 speeds.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 04 May 2015 14:08 #2096

  • dilletant
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I too use one of those small tiny USB sticks from Sandisk. It's 32 gig and it works just fine. And here is how I remove it from BK7m.

USBStickTie.jpg


Such a ties are usually used for audio cables and power adaptors.
I was angered, for I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 04 May 2015 16:05 #2100

  • Diki
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Do you have the exact model #, dilletant?

For the purposes of this thread, it will be important to list that, so there is no misunderstanding.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 04 May 2015 20:15 #2103

  • dilletant
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I was angered, for I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 04 May 2015 21:52 #2105

  • marko
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On Bk-7M it is very useful to use a small tiny usb.
If you take away your BK-7M, it is not necessary to unplug the small tiny USB.because your usb is protected by a small space about 7 millimeter from the connector..



It is a very good choice dilletant ! ;)
Yamaha TYROS 5 - Roland BK-7M - Ketron MIDJAY+ - Yamaha DGX 220

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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 05 May 2015 07:40 #2108

  • Diki
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Yes... they are perfect for the BK-7m (I have a Cruzer Fit, too). I guess I need to do Dilletant's trick with the string to make pulling it out easier, though!

On the other hand, not having the string in makes it almost impossible to steal...! :evil:

I've recommended these things to a lot of friends.... I big stick sticking out of a keyboard is a real temptation for the light fingered (or let's just call them thieving bastards!) and 9 times out of 10, most people don't even notice that there IS a stick in your gear. They don't steal what they can't see! :whistle:

They are also great for leaving plugged into laptops and Surfaces, etc.

Highly recommended.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 11 May 2015 08:29 #2136

  • bigalminal
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I just took a punt and bought a Kingston Data Traveller 128gig. Runs fine on my BK 9 with plenty of space for audio phrases.
Al.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 11 May 2015 09:33 #2137

I'm pretty new to my BK-7m n I bought a SanDisk Cruizer 32 bb. I don't know if it's the flashes fault or the BK, but, when I record , I'll get at least one drop out
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 11 May 2015 19:16 #2139

  • Diki
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I think that, like older hard drives, there may be an advantage to keeping your stick unfragmented when recording. If you tend to jack stuff in and out all the time, especially bigger files, you may end up with a stick that is fairly fragmented, and that may cause a recording to hiccup if you aren't careful.

Try this...

Before recording an audio tune, take your stick out of the BK and back up its contents to your computer. Then reformat the stick in the BK (you DID originally format in there, didn't you?) so it is empty (but with the folders on it). Put it back in the computer, and put the folders in the trash. Empty the trash (this is important, because until you empty the trash, the files are still on the stick, only invisible)... Now reload the files from the computer to the stick. This SHOULD pack the files on as tight as possible, and leave you with an unfragmented file structure.

Now try recording to the stick... Does it still drop out at all?

If it doesn't, you might consider this procedure every time you intend to do any recording. You should be able to do several recordings as long as you save each one of them (even if you don't like the take, it keeps the files unfragmented - you can always delete later).
Last Edit: 11 May 2015 19:20 by Diki.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 12 May 2015 10:25 #2141

  • Willem52
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Diki wrote:
Empty the trash (this is important, because until you empty the trash, the files are still on the stick, only invisible)...

Note: Maybe this is the behaviour on Mac's but not as standard behaviour for external devices on Windows PC.
Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820.
Last Edit: 12 May 2015 10:26 by Willem52.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 12 May 2015 19:16 #2143

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If you can recover files from the trash, they are still on your stick... Try this:

Load up your stick with a bunch of audio files. See how much empty space is available. Now toss the files in the trash, but don't empty it. How much space does it say is available on the stick?

On a Mac, until you empty the trash, they are still taking up room (but invisible). If Windows doesn't report any extra space on the stick until you empty the trash, it's the same. If, as soon as you toss them, it reports the empty space is now available, they may indeed be deleted, and the file structure available to overwrite.

You might want to check into this... If there is ANY ability to recover deleted files, it means the data (and where it resides in the FAT) are still intact, and the OS is putting new stuff on the stick around the invisible data, but not informing you. Only a secure delete (emptying the trash) tends to free up the FAT and allow it to use those sectors rather than any other free space first.

TBH, I have not investigated this in any depth yet (especially the Windows behavior), so I may be in error. But the way I figure it, it can't HURT! And, if there's one thing that 25 years+ of audio production experience has taught me, it's that recording to any attached storage goes smoother and easier if the drive is defragmented, and packed as tight as possible.

Maybe if Scott tries this and reports whether it helps, we'll know for sure! B)
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 13 May 2015 10:24 #2146

  • Willem52
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To keep it short and simple:
If files are normally deleted by using an Operating System, the used blocks of memory
are freed, but not erased. When there have not been any write action after that, it is often
possible t0 undelete those files with help of a special software tool.

I cannot speak about the exact Mac OS behaviour on this, because I haven't any to check.
Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 13 May 2015 18:51 #2148

  • Diki
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Interesting. It might be helpful to know that, if trashed but not emptied, does the FAT try to avoid those sectors if there is other room on the stick, or does it immediately use those sectors?

I must confess, a lot of my habits about defragmentation and efficient use of HD's comes from the old spinning platter types, and perhaps solid state drives (like sticks) don't have quite the same issues, but I still hold by the old habits of repacking the data from time to time, to minimize any work the file allocation routines have to do to stream long files continuously onto (or off) the drive. Particularly in the case of the BK's audio recording, which seems to be on the fragile side with certain sticks or models, I simply feel it is better to be safe than sorry.

Particularly when the defragmentation procedure only takes a few minutes, and guarantees to pack the files as tight as they can go (when you write a backup to a freshly formatted drive, the files go down sequentially, with zero fragmentation and close to zero gaps in the FAT), if you are going to do any critical audio writing, this gives you your best shot at the fewest problems...

You also have to remember, during that recording process, that you should always 'accept' each new recording, even if it was a bad take. You can always delete them later, but you'll keep your fresh defragmented FAT that way as you add new recordings. Don't erase stuff until finished, then before the next recording session do the backup and reformat and re-pack again.

I can't honestly show definitive proof any of this is necessary yet (need to do some more research) but, as I said, it can't HURT, and it is logically sound, as it was a bombproof way to avoid problems on spinning platter HD's.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 14 May 2015 09:29 #2149

  • Willem52
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It seems to me, that the whole idea of a Trashcan is to be able to fully restore what erroneous was deleted.
But the used OS must be set to use the trashcan for the specific device in that way.

It is not needed and it should be avoided to defragment (too often) an electronic memory device.
The access time for those devices is very small, so it would not help much but does shorten the
lifespan of the device! This includes all kind of memory cards, USB memory sticks and S.S.D.
(Solid State Drive). But on the other hand, if you do, have backups and a spare device by hand.
Better safe than sorry.
Roland E-80 V2.03 + SRX-06 + SR-G01, FC-7, PK-5, SC-8820.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 14 May 2015 18:44 #2150

  • Diki
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I'd say in normal operation, that's true, Willem. But this set of posts was as a response to a member who was getting the occasional dropout during recording on his BK-7m. All I have been doing is to suggest a possible remedy...

It would be good to hear from him again, to perhaps see if this works, or whether there is some other trackable reason for the error.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 19 May 2015 15:47 #2166

  • JGuretsky
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I am a BK dealer with over 100 BK customers. My advice:

1. Purchase USB sticks WITHOUT any software on them. The included Backup, Virus checking, and file systems that come with the sticks slow down the read / write speed drastically.

2. Use a different stick for Registrations (set-ups) and songs.

3. Keep the number of Folders and items in a folder well under 99.

4. From time to time inspect the contacts of the stick and instrument. Tarnish and dirt act as insulators and can cause a glitch in data transfer.

As for the recording drop out mentioned above:

0. TRY A NEW STICK

1. Check all midi, audio, and power cables. I see a lot of pros at the end of a gig wrap them around their arm and knot the cable. This can cause a small break inside the cable that you will never see, but will occasionally open momentarily causing an interruption in the midi or audio data. Always use cable ties. (I like the Velcro ones)

2. If you play loud, or with a lot of base, try putting a pad under the instrument to lesson any vibrations.

3. I always record a new song on a clean stick. I might have 5 or 6 versions of the song and I want them on one stick to take to the editing software. Using a old stick with hundreds of registrations, songs, and wave files makes the "computer" jump around looking for space to write to.

4. These instruments ARE computers. Do you have an battery back up for your computer? Do you have one for your keyboard rig? Just a momentary drop in voltage can cause a glitch, even if it is so fast that the instruments does not turn off.
Jay Guretsky
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 20 May 2015 22:34 #2174

  • Diki
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JGuretsky wrote:
2. Use a different stick for Registrations (set-ups) and songs.

How would this be practical? Your Registrations (Performances in Roland-speak) refer to the Songs...

Or do you mean use a different stick if recording an audio project to the one you might gig with?
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 20 May 2015 22:39 #2175

  • Diki
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JGuretsky wrote:
3. I always record a new song on a clean stick. I might have 5 or 6 versions of the song and I want them on one stick to take to the editing software. Using a old stick with hundreds of registrations, songs, and wave files makes the "computer" jump around looking for space to write to.

This is rather the point I was making earlier on... but a different solution. But for those that may not have a bunch of high speed sticks just lying about, I believe a backup, reformat, then packing the original data back on the newly formatted stick will cause it to be defragmented and packed as tight as possible, leaving you with fresh, defragmented space to record to.
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 07 Jun 2015 15:40 #2220

  • rbdeli
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I have a Kingston DTGE9 - 16GB module that worked flawlessly with no formatting. I did go ahead and format on the BK-7M instrument anyway just to be sure. This is a nice USB stick because of it's small size.
Rob Delisa
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 17 Jan 2016 20:38 #3578

  • Alejandro
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I use Lexar S70 Jumpdrive. (16 GB)
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 24 Apr 2016 07:49 #4194

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E-A7 Update was not complete even it displayed "success" most probably because of my old USB (16 GB) without name, I got it as compliment from a company with their profile, I usually use it for my Smart TV.

After changing to a new "Sandisk Cruzer Blade Flash Drive 4GB" the update was again successful and complete.

Now my E-A7 was fully functional.

What an awesome Keyboard. Tones and Styles are amazing.. love my E-A7, way better than my other Keyboard Yamaha PSR S-950 :woohoo:
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 24 Apr 2016 20:51 #4205

  • Diki
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I would suggest, if you are going to use the sampler much, or the audio multipads, or put a sizable break music MP3 collection on the stick, upgrade to a 64GB stick. They are pretty cheap and you won't be running out of room soon!

I have over 4GB just in break music on my BK-9's stick!

I would also strongly suggest getting TWO identical big sticks. Nothing is more gutting than to lose (or have stolen, or corrupting) your gig stick on the gig...

Keep a backup stick on your body at all times, or at least separate from where you keep the main stick, and theft or loss or corruption will not derail your gig!

Case in point... I was at a gig the other day, made a minor change to one Performance and 'wrote' it to the stick. During the 'write', the club briefly lost power to the stage (a flicker, nothing more). The end result was my Performances corrupted and unable to load them... DISASTER!

But I had my backup stick with me... Changed sticks, got on with the show... Problem solved!

Never underestimate the chances something can happen to your stick. Theft (the E-A7's USB slot is not hidden like the BK-9's is... your stick is sitting there in plain sight for some kid to steal!) and corruption can derail your gig.

Buy TWO!
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 06 May 2016 02:02 #4302

  • PraiseTheLord
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ADATA 5102/ 16GB Pro used in a Roland BK-9
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 03 Jun 2016 23:05 #4417

  • Wallis87
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I use San Disk Ultra 25x which is instant
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 03 Aug 2016 22:46 #4738

  • blackpool
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Used a Lexar 8gb Jumpdrive s70 and it worked fine to update my BK9

I had tried an 'unbranded' usb and had problems
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 23 Mar 2017 17:26 #5684

  • dymusya
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Hi guys.
very disapointed with this pendrive
www.pny.com/attache-4-usb-flash-drive-black?sku=P-FD32GATT4-GE

PNY 32 Gb.
Tried to do everything, format it with PC to NTFS, .. etc. any soultion.
doesn´t work with e-a7, keyboard responds "USB Device not inserted" also can´t formatt it there on roland e-a7.
be aware with it, DON´T buy,, totally bul..irt.
Will return it today if they accept.

former Cruzer SanDisc 32 gb worked like a charm
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2017 17:30 by dymusya. Reason: adding info
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 23 Mar 2017 21:11 #5685

  • Terrysutt
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According to Roland UK,the E-A7 only accepts USB 2.0 high speed flash drive.
Terry
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List which USB sticks work, and which don't in BK series arrangers... 24 Mar 2017 17:05 #5687

  • Diki
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I'm looking at PNY's site. There is no such thing as a 'high speed' USB 2.0. All drives are either USB 2.0, or USB 3.0, with no differentiation about speed.

I'm rather more of the opinion (having used two PNY Attache 64GB's with no issues) that either he got a bad unit (it happens) or incorrectly formatted the drive in the first place, leading to it becoming unreadable.

Do we have any reports of USB 3.0 drive usage with E-A7's? They are supposed to be backwards compatible, and certainly are rated for far higher data transfer than USB 2.0 drives.
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