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TOPIC: Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m

Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 16:09 #5834

I want to use a sustain pedal from my old Roland RD 150 stage piano.
But I doesn't work correct on my roland BK9. When I press it down one time, all the notes after that are being sustained.

I suspect it has somewhat to do with te polarity setting in the menu (latch or momentarily) but I can't find a place to change it.
Can someone help me out!

Thanks in advance.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 19:00 #5837

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Make sure you have it in the Sustain (Hold) jack, NOT the 'control' input.

I have a nasty feeling your pedal is faulty. There is no latched/unlatched command for Roland sustain jacks. Either that or it is a latched pedal and wasn't intended as a sustain.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 19:35 #5838

Thanks for your answer Diki. Unfortenately both your suggestions don't seem right. The pedal works fine in my Nord Stage 2 and the Nord pedal works fine in the BK9. I am sure the Roland pedal was intended for sustain pedal as it looks like one (a metal pedal) and I have used it as such for years with my Roland RD 150.
So it must be another thing.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 22:52 #5839

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One other thing to check... is there a switch between 'continuous' and 'switched' on the pedal? The BK-9 doesn't work with sustain pedals that can do half-pedaling. I have a Roland sustain pedal that has a switch on it for that, and it needs to be in switched configuration.

You might also check whether the pedal has a TRS or a TS 1/4" jack on it. If TS, you should be good to go. If TRS, make sure it is set to 'switched'. Are both pedals you have TRS?

But I can assure you, if it is a normal Roland sustain, and is working correctly, you shouldn't have this issue.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 22:55 #5840

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Lastly, make sure you haven't switched your RD150 to the other polarity. TBH, what you say is happening sounds EXACTLY like a wrong polarity switch being used. Does the stuck notes stop when you press DOWN and hold the pedal?
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 22 Apr 2017 23:28 #5842

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Note ...Polarity is auto-detect on Bk7m probably also BK9 when turn-on <make sure you don't push(hold) down the pedal while start-up your BK
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 23 Apr 2017 10:29 #5846

Thanks again for your suggestions. It is a sustainpedal with a TS jack (mono jack). No switch on it.

For now I gave up, (and I use my Nord Stage pedal for it when I take it to rehearsals)
I have a more prominent issue although: I have the keyboard for some years already but it lay idling as I found it too complicated and I used my Nord Stage.
But now I want to use it to recreate the sounds I programmed in my Nord Stage, so that I can take this very light (!) BK9 to rehearsals and when we play outside (I soldered a device to battery operate it at 9V, 2 ampères).

But recreating the sounds isn't an easy task. Some questions:

1- can I create a Hammond sound with both Rotary and Time Delay? Reading the manual I suspect it can't be done as the Mfx for Upper Part 1 (or 2) is already being taken by the Rotary effect.. Am I corect

2- Can I write my own (tweaked sounds) in the memory? Because if I understand it correct you can't make your own User Tones.

@ Diki Maybe I'm not supposed to pose this question in this thread. If so I'd be happy to make a new thread for it.

Last night I read some of your posts and I totally agree that Roland would have really made a killer keyboard, if they only would support it and put out some OS updates.
Don't the people at Roland read these kind of forums and realize people go to brands that do support their products?
Last Edit: 23 Apr 2017 10:30 by kareldejong.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 23 Apr 2017 20:36 #5849

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To answer Q1) The BK-9's proper VK B3 sim (HB sound) only has a reverb send, and yes, you are right, you can't cascade one MFX into another. But...

About the only way to get a Hammond with an active Leslie AND be able to echo it is to use a Tone Organ sound (not the VK B3 sim), preferably one with no Leslie sampled in (there are only a few of those), use the VK Leslie MFX, and set the Chorus Send effect to 'Delay'. There will be a chorus send inside the Leslie MFX, send from there. Of course, you lose your regular chorus send, but I find I rarely need that anyway, so 90% of my Performances, Chorus is Delay instead.

Don't forget to set your Part velocity Touch to 'Fixed' and assign the swell pedal (expression) to that Part.

Q2) No. The new E-A7 has finally added User Tone storage after years of begging for it, but the ONLY place you can store your edits to a Tone in a BK are in the Performance, or in an OTS.

Mind you... If playing with a band and you need quick Tone recall with edits, I'd simply make a bunch of Performances strictly for live band use with your main edited sounds ready to go. Alternatively, if you need four or less different edited Tones in a hurry (no time to change Performance) load a style up, edit the OTS, and save as a User Style to the stick, create a Performance that calls it up. You know have four entirely different keyboard setups, including edited Tones, all available from the OTS buttons. Easy! Just remember to turn the Style Parts OFF, so you don't accidentally start the rhythm while the band is playing! :woohoo:

About the last arranger Roland made that they strongly supported new features and extensive bug fixing was the G70. Sadly, these days, it appears that arrangers are not very high on Roland's list of priorities. their synth lines are doing well, but they have allowed themselves to be marginalized in the arranger market, and don't honestly seem to care much about them these days. The E-A7 is the first totally new arranger in years, and seems to be something of a complete orphan (no lower models, no TOTL models based on it) with next to no active support. I honestly think that a minor redesign of the BK-9 and a re-write of the OS to allow stuff like allowing LH layers, adding Links to the Performance for the saved Chord Sequences, and saved .JPG's (which would give us an integrated lyric and sheet music display on an external monitor), User Tones, and slider control (like the G70/E80 had) of not just volume but rev/cho/pan (and like the G70/E80, slider control of those for the Makeup Tools) would have turned the BK-9 into a complete Yamaha or Korg killer.

For the want of a nail... :whistle:
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 23 Apr 2017 22:23 #5854

Thanks again Diki for your extensive answer. I figured out about the same as your suggestions today, using the Clonewheel Organ (so that I still can adjust the drawbars) and replacing the Reverb for a Delay. I think your suggestion is even better as I won't miss the chorus at all (Chorus really is a Roland trademark isn't it, still reminds me of my old Juno 106 ;) )

And indeed I ended up by making a Performance list, but in the process of doing so I've been using a lot of swear words thinking the OS clearly isn't intuïtive! I've been on it for the largest part of the day, while tweaking the same sounds on my Nord Stage took me about ten minutes!

I even put my BK9 on the Dutch equivalent of ebay today, thinking of trading it in for a VR09 probably. But that would only provide me with 5 octaves and probably also a complicated interface. So for now I'll leave it this way and I realize it's not honest to compare a cheap Roland (because they DO give us a lot of bang for your bucks) with a (way too) expensive Nord.
It also has to do with me having changed my goals 'on the road', The BK9 being my first arranger keyboard and coming to realize that an arranger keyboard takes a lot more than just starting the thing and pressing your chords in terms of preparation. And realizing that maybe I'm better of, just playing in a band after all.
So for the moment I think I'll hang on to the BK9 (because it DOES sound good and it IS very light for a 76 keyboard with a decent action) and try to program the rest of the sounds I need for the band. They don't have to be perfect because it's only for rehearsals (I'm too lazy to lift my 18kg Nord all the way from the attic every week) and the occasional time of playing outside

Now I'm stuck with the following problem:

I need a Fender Rhodes with a Wah pedal. I was digging in the manual today but I couldn't figure out a way to control the Wah effect with my Roland EV5 pedal.

Can it be done?

By the way, do you have some sound examples of your work with arranger keyboards somewhere? I'm just curious because you seem to have a lot of experience in this field. Roland should put you on the payroll :) Ever thought of making a tutorial DVD (like the ones the make for the Tyros)? It's a pity we live so far apart because me - as a television program maker- could have helped you out with that ;)

Thanks again.

Greetings Karel
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 24 Apr 2017 21:49 #5857

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Have you checked out p.145/146 of the manual?

If you put another expression pedal in the Control input, you can control MFX1/MFX2 sliders, or CC1/2/3 sliders.

Pretty sure you could wind up the resonance and then use Control to adjust filter cutoff, or the Center Frequency of the Auto Wah...

I also think that it is utterly impossible to compare a Nord and a Roland arranger. Sure, if you are ONLY going to use it as a live keyboard in a band, and ONLY use it for the same sounds as a Nord, obviously the Nord is going to come out ahead. But try using your Nord for any work using beats. Try using your Nord for strings, brass, synths, drums, percussion, ethnic sounds (need I go on?!). Try playing audio files on the Nord. Try triggering audio loops from keys on the Nord... Try sequencing on your Nord. Try recording yourself on the Nord.

In truth, I find the BK-9 a FAR, far better keyboard than a Nord. It will do everything a Nord can do passably, but dozens of things the Nord can't do at all.
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 29 Apr 2017 19:31 #5867

Hi Diki,

Sorry for my late reply (been busy working this week :( )

Thanks for your answer regarding the second control pedal to change the Auto Wah effect.

I haven;t figured it out totally (the way you described it) but I accidentily created something that's goog enough for the moment

As far as the Nord-Roland comparison is concerned: you cán use strings, basses, ethnic sounds etc. on the Nord (you can even load your own samples!) but the two of course remain incomparable.

I've feen fooling around on the BK9 this afternoon and I begin to like it more, but in my opinion most sounds need to be tweaked as Roland seems to have a tendency to make them all far to bright in the EQ settings.

By the way do you think there's ever gonna be a new Firmware Update or has Roland really given up on this keyboard?
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Sustain Pedal in BK9/BK7m 30 Apr 2017 08:43 #5868

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I'd be extremely surprised to see anything added to the BK-9. Such a shame, as they is basically the hardware right there for a MUCH better arranger with nothing added but software. Oh well...

Still pretty happy.

If unhappy with how bright much of the sounds are, have you yet turned off all the Mastering EQ and compression? The factory defaults, IMHO, are way too aggressive if you have decent monitors or speakers. Roland try hard to make their default sound sound impressive on small, crappy speakers, but that works against someone with a pro rig. Turn it all off. That's what I do.

Secondly, if you are loading Tones with their default MFX and EQ, that too tends to get hyped. Try them flat.

TBH, several things in the BK-9 take a bit of work,,, but try running the SN Jazz guitar through the Amp Sim in the MFX (cranked up), fed into the chorus retasked as time synced echo. Amazing lead guitar! The SN stuff cleans up your fingering, you can still do chords (two or three string stuff), a swell pedal allows you to go from slight blues crunch to searing Santana. Think of all the rockers that run a Gibson 335 into a blues amp... :woohoo:

(BTW, if you haven't noticed yet, pick a lead sound with the chorus set to Delay, and the speed of the echo is synced to tempo. In a live band setting, tap along with the drummer's count-in, now all your effects are tempo-synced! Plus you can also do triplet time echoes simply by tapping of in 3 against 2 or triplet time. Amazingly handy for live drummer with no click shows. It's amazing how critical getting the effects in time with the music is for the groove...)

There's all kinds of cool stuff lurking in the ROM, and, unlike the Nord, it's all sitting there in ROM ready to do rather than having to be loaded in a modest RAM size after you've decided which few sounds you want... :evil:

Then start to think about what you can do with the Key Audio loops... ambient noise, rhythmic atmospherics, little sampled arpeggio figures, full blown percussion ensembles. You can have entire backings as live loops, play them DJ style.

You can layer up to four Tones together, all with different velocity ranges and curves for some pretty evolving sounds. And all changeable on the fly with minimal sound cutoff. There's some very cool ambient things you can do changing pad sounds on the fly while you sustain stuff (by using Performances). Very Eno! Add in programmed MFX adjustments on the sliders, and the sliders set to adjust filter cutoffs or resonances, etc.. The bk-9 can do some pretty fun synth stuff.

I like Nords, don't get me wrong. Played Electros for years, messed around a bit with the Stage. What they do, they do great. But me, if I was told to pack ONE keyboard for a gig where I had no idea what they needed, it would be the BK-9...

It's got it all.
Last Edit: 30 Apr 2017 08:44 by Diki.
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